Year 13 boys

[schopenhauer]

Doesn’t anyone else have a problem with a minority of year 13 boys behaving with a very disrespectful attitude towards them specifically? I’ve found that for the past few years I have had problems with one or two year 13 boys each year and there is no way they would speak to a male teacher in the same way, unfortunately. I’m actually so sick of it, the vast majority of them are lovely but it does really get me down on a day to day basis dealing with these nasty kids who have a rude and entitled attitude and can’t deal with being told that they need to change and start working or they will fail their A-level. It seems to be this year group and only boys I have this issue with. It’s making me want to leave teaching to be honest. Recently been called pathetic amongst other things and had a parent complaining about the report I gave her precious boy. Others arguing with me about both the subject knowledge (they think they know more than me - they don’t) and report grades etc etc. just wondered if I am the only one. I’ve been teaching 10 years and I think I’ve had enough. Get excellent results by the way.

Yes, sixth form boys can be very arrogant. The male brain doesn't develop til the age of about 28!

Tbh, I don't shy away from bollocking them.

They have quite an entitled boy mob mentality at my place.

Stand your ground and bollock them.

I have boys try to do this, but they don't get very far.

My favourite thing is to give them some really tricky question to do, as a starter, on some minor detail I covered in a previous lesson and watch them flailing around, frantically looking through their notes, because they can't do it, then they end up having to ask me for help. It takes the wind out of their sails.

You have to be super-confident with them as well, don't be ever in any way unsure of yourself. I have to wade through complex calculations on the board and I make very sure that I know exactly what I'm doing.

Same here. Actually it's leaked downwards to Y12 and Y11 at our place. Stick to your guns. I have taught many who are naturally cleverer than I am but I know more. Set a few academic tests for them that require on the spot thinking. Or get some one else to moderate your marking if it's a subject like English where opinion might come into it.

Thanks for your replies! I thought I was bollocking them to be honest but maybe I’m not harsh enough. When the boy said I was pathetic I just said well that’s fine if everything is so pathetic I suggest you leave. He then settled down and decided to stay in the room (sadly). Yes I think I am sometimes a bit equivocal, because of course I don’t know everything, but maybe with these people in the classroom that gives an impression of weakness. I don’t really make mistakes though, they make loads and I often catch them out and they look stupid. Doesn’t seem to deter them from being idiots sadly. I’ll keep trying with that because again maybe I’m not being harsh enough.

I would have sent him out for that, sixth form or no sixth form.

I'm not a fan of making children look stupid though, or trying to catch them out even. I don't think that's the way to build a good working relationship with any age group. Confidence is absolutely key.

What led to the "pathetic" thing?

Trying to catch teachers out is a favourite boy tactic. There are many ways of dealing with it but generally just don't rise to bullying goading.

The pathetic thing is really bad.

Also, I mean this nicely, are you nagging them? I find boys regard all female teachers of a certain age as mother equivalents. Sadly, many boys are not all that nice to their mothers. If you sound like their mum they can soemtimes treat you like her : ie be dismissive , rude , and shut off (and, yes, I do have a year 13 DS!!)

The bit that makes me suspect that is your phrase about telling them they will 'fail'. They probably dismiss this argument; they will rationalise it , knowing that very few students do fail and minimise it by telling themselves that thye can blag/ revise at the last minute/use their God given brilliance to wow the examiner...

Haha yes piggy perhaps I am nagging, I’m not sure I do try to save those lectures about improving things for when really needed but maybe that’s more than they want to hear it! It’s hard to get the balance between not nagging and not being weak and standing up for yourself. Whilst also not rising to bad behaviour. I should have probably nailed this by now but clearly I haven’t. Just feeling so exhausted by it and I’m not looking forward to teaching this group tomorrow, even though it’s only one or two who play up.

I know how you feel. Sixth formers being difficult is very disempowering.

Thanks, I agree. There are no consequences for them, of which they are well aware.

They are a pain at times! I don't nag 6th form - they get an instruction and one reminder. Some of the more arrogant ones need to be allowed to fail so they learn to ask for help. It's good for them, I think - they need to be treated like grown ups. And, frankly, I'd absolutely kick out any student who called me pathetic.

I once had a year 13 class who decided they didn't need to listen to me - they were too busy planning the prom. I sat down and started marking. When they asked what was going on I told them the truth - I'm not prepared to waste my time with them when I had other stuff that I needed to do for students who did value my time. They apologised, their manners dramatically improved and I spent the next few days panicking in case they told their parents!

Speak to your head of sixth form of head of subject - there should be consequences (there is in my school).
Shut them down each and every time.
If it persists, arrange a meeting which you, the student concerned and the head of sixth form.

Oh, and remind them that they can come and have an adult conversation with you out of lesson time. Whilst they're there, the time should be for learning.

Gah! Or head of subject.

Hetty they won’t ask for help (the troublesome ones anyway as they are too arrogant). If I sat down and marked they would just laugh. Oh and then complain to mummy who would probably write in. Letters have been sent home about poor conduct but that’s basically nothing for them.

So mummy writes in, then what? Their son is still a rude young man, writing in won't change that!

If letters have already been sent then you need to speak to the head of sixth form of your department head and get a meeting set up with them and their parents. They may be young adults but you are their teacher and they have no right to be so disrespectful.

If a student called me pathetic I would be telling them to leave immediately and come back when they have found their manners!

Thankfully, the best majority of sixth formers I have taught have been lovely but I have always come down very hard on disrespectful behaviour.

OP, I wasn't meaning it as a suggestion. Those year 13s were usually pretty good and it still probably wasn't the best idea - I was essentially playing a game of chicken with them.

What happens when you pass it up the chain? Their current behaviour sounds really bad.

There are no consequences for them, of which they are well aware.

Why not? If a student told me I was pathetic, year 13 or not, that would be considered to be serious. Our year 13 students are well aware that the same rules apply to them as to all other students (as far as behaviour/attitude are concerned). Our head of sixth form is VERY hot on this and would have spoken to the student and made expectations of behaviour going forth very clear.