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"Parents must not abdicate duties to teachers"
59

ASauvignonADay · 02/12/2018 09:36

www.bbc.com/news/education-46416421 (sorry I can't link!)


"Parents should not expect schools to police children's eating and exercise, or toilet train pupils, Ofsted boss Amanda Spielman will say this week."

Just seen this all over Twitter. A lot of talk also of schools being blamed/responsible for the decline of children's mental health, but that schools are not experts and risk making things worse. We are being told as schools to try and step away from getting involved in some of the more complex mental health/trauma related issues, and more complex safeguarding issues. But with so many other services cut, I feel more kids are going to be left vulnerable as they fall down the gap.

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theluckiest · 02/12/2018 12:08

I've just read this on the BBC webpage and was just about to post about it!!

I was once involved with a project in primary schools aimed at getting children talking about healthy eating and tasting new fruits / veg, etc. They loved it and were really knowledgeable.

Trouble was, the children knew exactly what healthy choices were but then weren't in control of any food prep or grocery shopping once they got home. The project went into over 50 primary schools and the aim was to involve parents too. The uptake was pitiful - approx 30 parents attended in total over the entire projectSad

I also work in a primary school now. We had at least 7 children start in reception who were not toilet trained (I'm not including children with SEN). The parents had left it up to the school...

I'm always baffled when yet another a report or recommendation comes out suggesting that schools teach children yet another social skill - when schools are on the bones of their arse as it is and can barely cover the curriculum...

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theluckiest · 02/12/2018 12:13

On the other hand, I do think that the most vulnerable children and parents should be able to access support through schools but unfortunately, these services are the first to be cut at the moment...leaving that support to fall to other overstretched staff or more likely, none whatsoever.

This week's 'School' about SEN and learning support was just a bloody tragedy...

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redsummershoes · 02/12/2018 12:19

The uptake was pitiful - approx 30 parents attended in total over the entire project

let me guess, the workshop was during normal working hours...

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ASauvignonADay · 02/12/2018 16:25

This week's 'School' about SEN and learning support was just a bloody tragedy...
I agree!

Re uptake of workshops - anything we run is after usual working hours and the uptake is so low.

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Branleuse · 02/12/2018 16:29

If children are expected to be in school the majority of their waking hours for the majority of their childhood, then schools do have to take a lot of responsibility

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BishopstonFaffing · 02/12/2018 16:40

Say an average chips is awake from 7am to 8pm. They spend 1400 hours per annum at school out of a possible 4732. So definitely not the majority.

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RustyBear · 02/12/2018 16:47

If children are expected to be in school the majority of their waking hours for the majority of their childhood

But they’re not.

There are 8760 hours in a year
If a child sleeps 10 hours a night (probably an overestimate over the course of their school life), that leaves 5110 waking hours. If they were in school for 8 hours a day for the 190 days a year that state schools are open, that’s still only 1520 hours. Nothing like ‘the majority of their waking time’

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BishopstonFaffing · 02/12/2018 16:47

Or an average child. No average chips here please.

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Jackshouse · 02/12/2018 16:55

I get what Ofsted is saying. But for a many parents they don’t have the knowledge or skills to effectively parent. I think there need to be a lot more support for parents in the early years, the return of children’s centres, more HV and family support workers.

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noblegiraffe · 02/12/2018 17:02

Easier for the government to tell teachers that they need to sort out kids’ eating habits than it is to tell parents.

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bullyingadvice2017 · 02/12/2018 17:33

Similar reasons to the epidemic of badly behaved children.
All the initiatives in the world won't work if no one ever has the balls or authority to sit parents down and say that actually your kid is badly behaved, your responsible for teaching them manners and how to behave.
Same as if kids are fat, every other option would be entertained and the kid given a label rather than some home truths being said.

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eurochick · 02/12/2018 18:03

If school started later than 4, I expect the toilet training issue at least could be avoided. 4 is too little for full time school in my view. It's no wonder teachers are having to take over some parenting issues.

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Branleuse · 02/12/2018 19:14

ok, well their useable waking hours.

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VisitorsEntrance · 02/12/2018 19:17

If children are expected to be in school the majority of their waking hours for the majority of their childhood, then schools do have to take a lot of responsibility

Yes. 190 out of 365 is the majority 😒

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VisitorsEntrance · 02/12/2018 19:19

Posted too soon

Yes the actual days are the majority, but only just. And schools are expected to teach them to read and write.
I’m willing to bet they go to the toilet or eat more meals at home than they do at school.

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mrbob · 02/12/2018 19:24

I think things like teaching children about healthy food are as much about sensible long term planning. Hopefully when THEY are parents they will make good decisions about food (or even just when they are adults) and the next generation will be better off. Have to start somewhere

I do think a lot of parents expect school to fix all their problem. If your child has had no discipline at home and gets no reinforcement of what they are learning at school it is not likely to work.

I have a suspicion there may be an element of people not having the capacity to parent. This might be because they had shit examples as parents or it might be because they are so bloody emotionally exhausted by trying to exist on an inadequate wage, feed and clothe their children and get through each day that actually there isn’t much space for learning (which only gets worse when austerity hits) I don’t think many people try to be bad parents. So society needs to look at WHY

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CaptainBrickbeard · 02/12/2018 19:26

They’re not in school for the majority of their useable waking hours. A lot of children do long days of wraparound childcare which would limit family time more. I’d love for school to start much later than four and to be shorter hours but work culture in this country is out of control with ridiculously long hours, presenteeism rife everywhere and not enough annual leave. Look on here every time there is INSET or a snow day - Parents go wild with rage. It’s not the fault of schools!

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ASauvignonADay · 02/12/2018 19:27

I think there need to be a lot more support for parents in the early years, the return of children’s centres, more HV and family support workers.
I agree.

We're losing pretty much all of our 'early intervention' support, now it falls to schools. The thresholds for CAMHS are so high, there is some charity support but otherwise, mental health seems to fall to schools. I'm secondary and I'd say lacking the above two is one of the biggest issues I see day to day. We are now trying to pick these up as well as manage behaviour/attendance/promote welfare/deal with bullying/usual safeguarding AND educate.

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Lottapianos · 02/12/2018 19:27

'I think there need to be a lot more support for parents in the early years, the return of children’s centres, more HV and family support workers.'

Completely agree. And a serious expectation that parents will access these services, use them, ask questions and develop their parenting skills. Expectations of parents have fallen so low, and expectations of schools and teachers have gone through the roof. It's totally unreasonable and needs to be rebalanced

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Cherries101 · 02/12/2018 19:27

I personally think parents absolutely do need to take more responsibility, but how could it be enforced? Most kids who turn up to DN’s school without eating breakfast (and in some cases no dinner either) are Middle Class with a SAHP who is for the first time trying to operate on someone else’s schedule and is struggling for some reason — teachers have struggled to stress the need for proper nutrition at home but it’s just fallen on deaf ears. But short on providing mandatory time management classes what else can they do?

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ASauvignonADay · 02/12/2018 19:27

I'd guess it's worse (or just different?) in primary?

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LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 02/12/2018 19:34

As a parent of a high school child, I'm continually astonished by the 'stuff' schools are expected to teach. Schools should be safety nets, places where neglect and issues are identified, then parents and families should be supported by trained professionals. You know, health visitors. Social workers. School nurses. Actual nurses!

Schools are used to tick a box that a thing has been 'sorted' and it's not on. And for the teachers on the thread, parents do see this, we do know it's not a situation you've chosen and we do realise you'd rather be teaching maths than having to fit in hours and hours of PE because parents don't take their kids to the park any more.

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PippaParty · 02/12/2018 20:04

Lack of funding for all service from central government, means no early help or intervention, change in family habits (mobiles, tablets, Internet) means lack of parent child interaction and children playing.

There is a crisis happening.
Maintained schools are at 'bankruptcy' point (if they could go bankrupt) academies are using untrained staff and making cuts to provision to make ends meet).

Amanda Spielman also needs to lead her inspectors to make robust judgements on starting points for children on entry to school. At the minute all children seem to be judged as 'inline' when they start school regardless of evidence that shows not toilet trained , pupils unable to eat solids, lack of language and experiences (non SEN). Makes progress impossible to show as Ofsted are judging pupils to be much further on developmentally than they actually are. This results in requires improvement schools due to progress outcomes.

What do secondary colleagues think of parenting education being part of the curriculum? Would this address the lack of knowledge and skills. The most important thing we ever do is raise our children, yet we have no training or knowledge provided.

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Biologifemini · 02/12/2018 20:09

Early years care is one thing but toilet training is a grind and a pain in the bum. It doesn’t require intelligence.
It is also a bloody good indicator of neglect. You can guarantee if the parents cannot be bothered to toilet train then they won’t be reading if an evening. What can the school and authorities do though? Pretty much nothing.

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noblegiraffe · 02/12/2018 20:18

What do secondary colleagues think of parenting education being part of the curriculum?

I think it’s expecting schools to solve yet another problem! And it’s targeting the wrong audience, a 14 year old isn’t interested in whether you should be toilet trained by 4 or that kids need teaching to use cutlery.

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