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Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Original poster

Ouch! Keep banging my head against the glass ceiling

110 replies

Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 13:19

I wanted to know if there was anyone else like me on MN who has been applying for secondary SLT jobs for as long as me (about 10 years...) and got nowhere. I must have applied for 40 jobs ( in a 35 miles radius). I have been shortlisted maybe 4 times (not including the four times I have been interviewed at my own school) : once for a DH post (I was thrilled but flummoxed!), the others for AHT posts and once for a post 200 miles away which I got cold feet about and now regret. Failed at interview every time. I find it v frustrating, as I am sometimes told I am not shortlisted because of lack of experience on other schools! Oh the irony! In my mid late forties now , I fear it is now too late. And I am very sad because I really have given over half my life to teaching, am a career teacher and have been told by many that I am a really good line manager and teachers who half know me often wonder why I have not got further.

All we hear about is the recruitment and retention crises but there is a real bottleneck to break into SLT. And , yet, on MN all I keep reading about is how shit a lot of SLTs are...which doesn't make sense as, in many cases, those people were appointed from fields of 40+ (unless it's my school, in which case they are often internal)

Anyone else in the same , or similar, boat want to share my pain? Or anyone else have any real insights into why some people make shortlists and other candidates, equally good (or better) on paper don't?

ps this is staffroom, please be gentle with me Smile

OP posts:
CraftyGin · 02/04/2018 13:36

I really don’t think there is a glass ceiling.

If you are rarely making shortlists, then there is something wrong with your application. Have you checked out the career clinic at TES?

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 13:55

I have given my application to a range of people, including my own head and a friend who works in headteacher recruitment : I trust noth of them to be honest, and they both sadi they couldnnot find fault.

I have sought feedback from a couple of nice heads who haven't shortlisted me and they always praise my actual application, so it's definitely not that.

I have looked at the career clinic , and it didn't tell me anything I didn't know.

If there isn't a glass ceiling, I am not sure what it is!

But, as I said, I posted to see if anyone had similar experience to me, as much as anything else...

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 13:55

(and my applications aren't full of typos,honest!)

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Eggzandbacon · 02/04/2018 13:57

Have you tried applying for a non SLT job in a school you would like to be SLT? We often promote SLT internally (a Trust)

CraftyGin · 02/04/2018 13:57

Did you create an Executive Summary?

CraftyGin · 02/04/2018 14:00

A glass ceiling would imply that you don’t get a look-in because you are in a protected demographic.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 14:02

I know what glass ceiling implies. I suspect that may have a little to do with it, when I look at my own SLT....

I didn't create an executive summary, no. Except for one job that asked for it. The schools are usually clear on what they want. Shouldn't safer recruitment dictate that if you meet the person spec you should be interviewed, or am I being naïve?

I have shortlisted for heads a few times and never seen any either?

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 14:04

Eggsz, I am beginning to think about it but I wouldn't take a paycut and jobs like my actual job aren't advertised externally either.

We appoint internally too at my place but plenty of schools don't it seems!

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tribpot · 02/04/2018 14:04

Have you had feedback on your performance actually at interview? I appreciate this isn't the main issue - getting shortlisted is - but it would be worth understanding why you're not making more progress if you look good on paper. Particularly on the internal interviews.

Do you have a mentor/are there any mentoring schemes that might be open to you, to help open some doors?

The comment about lack of experience of other schools - you've been in one place for a long time? This could be viewed negatively - both from the perspective of 'will have fixed ways of wanting to do things' and also that you haven't been promoted internally in all that time. I'm not a teacher but I like Eggzandbacon's advice to think about a sideways move.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 14:05

I have often heard that AHT posts in schools go to existing AHTs moving sideways rather than up?

There definitely is a bottleneck.... not making that bit up.

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CraftyGin · 02/04/2018 14:06

The easiest way to show that you meet the person spec is to produce an executive summary. You still have to fill out all parts of the application form per Safer Recruitment, but can have an ES as an appendix.

Other candidates will be doing it, and it makes shortlisting easier.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 14:07

I have been promoted internally several times. My pay is up at SLT levels.

I did seek feedback; always very supportive. They usually say I lacked confidence in some aspects of the interview process.

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 14:09

OK crafty will bear that in mind. Are you SLT? I think you are a science teacher iirc?

As I said , bizarrely, I have been involved in interviewing for SLT , and shortlisting, several times and haven't seen an ES, other than on the TES website, so they may not be very prevalent in my area.

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 14:11

My head has given me quite a few roles that he says will 'open doors' ... its yet to be a very successful strategy!

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ToriRay · 02/04/2018 14:20

Are you applying in a particular area? I.e T&L? Pastoral? Or generally SLT?

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 14:20

I did get shortlisted for a non teaching job recently (still in education), funnily enough. They had 55 applicants. Weird.

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Dolphincrossing · 02/04/2018 14:22

I’m not an enormous fan of ESs either.

You’d be most welcome to send your letter to me.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 14:31

Oh that's really kind of you dolphin. I might do that at some point. I do trust my friend's judgment and the heads who have said my application letter is 'a joy to read' (genuine quote which made me Confused )

I don't want to suspect hidden ageism but am beginning to wonder...

PM me your details dolphin ! Always up for more advice!

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 14:33

tori not much pastoral out there which would be my no1 choice. but I also have a T and L background, so those jobs ,too. Only thing I can't do really is curriculum/timetable

The biggest knockback I have had recently was not being shortlisted for a head of sixth form post when I was a HOY for 10 years and prior to that AHOY sixth form and am SL of three sixth from subject. Oooo... that stung!

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noblegiraffe · 02/04/2018 18:20

I get the impression from here that you’re not very ‘corporate’, and I’ve certainly seen more corporate types make career progress recently compared to your solid teacher-types.
I think the obsession with bums on seats for funding, and schools-as-businesses has led to a popularity of that sort of leadership.

SuperPug · 02/04/2018 19:27

Agree with Noble.
It appears to be a definite trend. I know that I have had to adapt considerably where I am.
I am not sure if I agree/ disagree with the glass ceiling in teaching. If you look at the figures for women/men at SLT level compared to teachers, it's not great. We are all aware of different factors (e.g. perhaps more women part time although this seems to be changing), but still...

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 19:55

True, although I have never been part time myself!

You know me well noble ! But I don't think that leaks out in my applications. I did come across some in shortlisting for headship recently that were astoundingly self assured in tone, mind , and I suspect I am not boastful enough.

I await with interest my own school publishing its pay gap figures!!

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Maidupmum · 02/04/2018 20:27

are you still with the LA or are you academy? Get yourself known to the LA officers and make it known to them that you're looking for promotion. Even ask their 'advice' on your application so that they read it Wink They will speak to lots of HTs and will gossip about you to them all.
Incidentally, I'm a Primary HT and I've never heard of an executive summary- is like to see someone's if anyone could PM me one!

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 20:32

We are a single school academy . The school bridges three LAs as it goes. I don't think the heads talk to each other as much as they used to. My friend who looks over my applications for me works for another LA and has told me about a few jobs. No luck yet. The schools I have been shortlisted for have been in three different LAs.

Some of the jobs I have not been shortlisted for, I've thought 'fair cop' ; others have been a real disappointment. I've even tried private and going into a different phase. I've done the pre interview tours/ not done them etc. Madcap!

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2018 20:34

The thing is, I never ever give up. I'll still be at it when I'm 65!

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