Ouch! Keep banging my head against the glass ceiling

[Piggywaspushed]

I wanted to know if there was anyone else like me on MN who has been applying for secondary SLT jobs for as long as me (about 10 years...) and got nowhere. I must have applied for 40 jobs ( in a 35 miles radius). I have been shortlisted maybe 4 times (not including the four times I have been interviewed at my own school) : once for a DH post (I was thrilled but flummoxed!), the others for AHT posts and once for a post 200 miles away which I got cold feet about and now regret. Failed at interview every time. I find it v frustrating, as I am sometimes told I am not shortlisted because of lack of experience on other schools! Oh the irony! In my mid late forties now , I fear it is now too late. And I am very sad because I really have given over half my life to teaching, am a career teacher and have been told by many that I am a really good line manager and teachers who half know me often wonder why I have not got further.

All we hear about is the recruitment and retention crises but there is a real bottleneck to break into SLT. And , yet, on MN all I keep reading about is how shit a lot of SLTs are...which doesn't make sense as, in many cases, those people were appointed from fields of 40+ (unless it's my school, in which case they are often internal)

Anyone else in the same , or similar, boat want to share my pain? Or anyone else have any real insights into why some people make shortlists and other candidates, equally good (or better) on paper don't?

ps this is staffroom, please be gentle with me

I'm not a teacher but could your problem be a financial decision that the schools are making? If you've been teaching a long time you will have been going up the pay scales. Are you now paid more than the bottom of the SLT pay band anyway? They probably want to get someone in at bottom of the pay scale. That would be my assumption.

Hi chiki : I'm not sure expense comes into it on Leadership spines since they publish s scale as it were. The jobs I apply for are either matching my current salary, a little higher, or a little lower. They'd actually have to give less of a jump in pay for me. The posts I am after are generally advertised at L10 and above.

The age range thing could be a big factor. Are you at a middle school? If so, that probably is a consideration if you’re applying for SLT in secondaries. They will feel that you don’t have knowledge of GCSE/A Level systems.

reinette that is interesting bit doesn't match my local experience where business stuff is left up to business managers, apart forma recently appointed (internally DH). I am generally applying for posts which don't have any financial remits.

The bit about courses does bother me because we are quite simply not allowed out on them! I have noticed on the (very) few that I have been on that some schools release multiple staff on courses but, certainly at my place, you really have to need the training for the good of the school to be let out. I have had my quota : been told that several times..

No twins not middle school but you are thinking on the right lines! Opposite issue.

snorey, music eh? Interesting!

As an aside...

Just researched the gender pay gap for all my local MATs (my own school isn't on there), inspired by another thread. I am flabbergasted.

Persimmon Homes - 9% (expected. standard.)
Bovis Homes - 7 %
Local College - 8%
Local NHS trust - 12%
Local police and the fire service - 7ish
One local MAT 40%
Other local MAT - 49%

That is appalling.

Interestingly, the same people are involved in both trusts and I have always thought they are a male dominated microcosm in their leadership (the knock on effect is that it effects their outward facing 'style' and don't try to tell me SLs don't appoint people in their own image; research has shown they do)Seems I was right. To me ,this in inexcusable.

In the interests of fairness, one other local MAT is at 7.8% so it can be (nearly) done.

no glass ceiling, my arse.

Evening Piggy. I'm back from HP. Well I was yesterday actually but I went into work today. The thing that I have witnessed about hardworking, dedicated and effective teachers is that when they get into the realms of SLT, with all the best intentions, is that they somehow end up as a scapegoat. They either jump or they are pushed. I've had 3 Dcs so my optimum time for promotion has been taken up with ML. I wonder which I would rather. I have been HoD but I hated the 'snitching' on colleagues it entailed, disguised as 'professional support'. I have always stayed out of the politics of any establishment I have worked in, but once again there appear to be power struggles within my school and I just wish they could actually be the adults they claim to to be. Sorry rant over! Wow I been on holiday for a week and I am still a little over wrought.

And whilst I am having a rant, management skills, MANAGEMENT SKILLS! Well if I can manage a group of 30 prepubescent youths, a group of testosterone filled male 16 year olds and a number of children who are having individual personal problems, I think I can safely say I can manage a group of professional who are being paid.

How about Future Leaders?

Oh, sorry, no - they’ve changed the criteria so you have to be an existing assistant head or deputy. Maybe have a look at Teaching Leaders, though.

Yes elephant, I feel that a bit ,too : I have managed year groups of 420 students : but still need to evidence my leadership experience... seriously!?

I will look into teaching leaders buxbaum : if it is like Future Leaders though, I think my school will need to agree to a secondment (they won't) and I think it doesn't run in my area. But I will find out!

I am sure one of the reason some people get on easier ( a bit like the argument about pilots raging elsewhere on MN) is there ability to finance their career and their willingness to attend conferences and, increasingly in teaching, Saturday events. The CTeach programme involves huge amounts of Saturday commitments and travel. This no doubt suite the young and the relatively affluent/ financially secure with easy childcare solutions.

Ummm. their not there ! Aargh!

I will admit I also rejected some things earlier in my career because they were focused on curriculum and teaching and learning and didn't suit my leadership experiences (pastoral is very very rarely built into them and the evidence I had to provide for one course, I basically had to make up!)

Looked at Teaching Leaders : interesting but my school wouldn't fund it (they say I have had my leadership training) and I don't lead a department/ have responsibility for the results of others : again it is all focused on Hofs and HoDs, so it would be great for a Head of maths, for example.

One bit of advice I have been giving new and ambitious colleagues recently : think twice before going down the pastoral route if you are keen to access SLT. sad but true.

Has your school/Trust got a teaching school? How about initial teacher training lead jobs? You sound like a great mentor and support, so could encompass everything you enjoy?

Thing is, many SLT are crap people managers. Some heads treat their staff like they would treat a dodgy GCSE group.

My DH is a manager in a different sector. He has been on numerous management courses, he has piles of books on management techniques and how to inspire, motivate, coach, run meetings, manage projects and so on. He thinks the management of teachers is appalling. He thinks it’s crap that as a teacher I never have 1-1 meetings with my line manager, that my performance review is done by any warm body with a TLR in the team during a lunchtime because there’s no time allocated and that I never have any CPD. That any interaction between leaders and teachers is about scrutiny, not support or even discussion. As far as I can see, any promotion is based on whether you can develop the curriculum, track the data and support the kids. That you’ll actually end up with a team working under you is barely referenced.

That might just be my experience though.

tori : we are a teaching school! My current job is within the teaching school but the job you mention is occupied by two sitting tenants : one is junior to me , and the other, allegedly, equal (let's not talk about the gender pay gap with that example, though...)

No noble definitely not juts your experience! Isn't is a sad sate of affairs??

Sigh noble, I think some of the clues as to why I am not SLT may be on the 'other thread' where I have been told to shut up and to fuck off by a headmistress.

I am

What, you mean you’re not enough of a nob? It’s entirely possible.

I think it is

Is there anything in the CCT that could help for leadership?

Getting on the leadership spine would absolutely be the right step.

Lots of Saturday events do provide crèches/very child friendly. I’ve brought along mine many times when childcare hasn’t been possible.

It isn't really about the childcare any more (mine are teenagers) so much as them being far away, expensive to get to and taking a whole day of the weekend / family time which I am not keen on... but I guess I should be more committed, but this is certainly a new addition to expectations in education! DH would think I had gone mad !

What is CCT scary?

Are there other more specific qualifications you could do-NASENCo for example?