Student 'can only do' 8.30-3.30

[SpringisSpringing]

I'm fairly new to teaching so I really don't know what to do. I don't want to be responsible for failing someone.

It's just not enough time. I don't get the chance to talk to her properly.

She's okay. Not great- but if I actually had time to mentor her she might get better!

I couldn't care less about their time on site as long as they spend enough time to get the job done properly. If they are doing the 'in late and out early' and things aren't being done properly then it's an issue.

The school are responsible for allocated directed time for class teachers and students to meet.
Not any secondary I've worked in.
Trainees have time with their school lead for all ITT/NQT
They have time with their mentor.

Class teacher contact is for them to arrange. How they do that is up to the trainee and teacher. Breaks/lunch/email/PPA.

Just for the record, whoever mentioned it, at 2/3 PGCE interviews, it was made clear we were expected to have a car when we started the course and that placements would not necessarily be accessible by public transport.

The logistics of placements was definitely a factor when choosing a training provider.

I think schools and training organisations need to get smarter about this.

I am a qualified teacher 7 years in (in a subject where there is a massive shortage of teachers but isn't NC, so no funding either) and in all three jobs I've had since having a DC there have been aspects that were simply impossible for me to manage with the childcare I can get and that were not made clear before I signed on the dotted line. Two employers made some reasonable adjustments; the other did not. Guess what, I'm not still working for them. Schools need to consider that as they are not paying very much in the grand scheme of things that teachers are unlikely to be able to pay for a nanny and most other types of childcare don't start before 7.30am, plus in many parts of the country teachers can't afford to live near school so may have a significant commute.

OP, is there some reason feedback can't happen by email in the evening? I realise that might be a bit annoying for you but there are other ways to share info other than in person. When I was training my various mentors used to email me things.

I am presuming that this trainee is not even being paid. The inflexible attitudes might be more understandable if people were queueing up to train...!

lady that smacks of discrimination! I didn't learn to drive succeed in passing my test until I was in my 4th year of teaching!! And couldn't have afforded a car each for me and DH even if I had.

...and on lots of PGCEs candidates without own transport are allocated schools that they can get to via public transport or Shanks' Pony.

Very few students had a car on my PGCE course. I did and I car shared with 3 others. My first placement I got to by train and walking.

I have a DC who is currently on a school based training scheme. She is in school 8.00 to 5.30 every day and works evenings and weekends at home planning. She also has to do several after school revision classes, parents evening, meetings etc. The school are quite clear that these are the sort of hours expected.
The drop out rate has been quite high among those trainees with families.

The inflexible attitudes might be more understandable if people were queueing up to train...!
Unfortunately, trainees have to actually be around enough to do their job. Yes, there is a shortage, but I would feel very uncomfortable suggesting someoen for QTS who doesn't demonstrate they can do it.
I'm very accommodating and will do emails, break, lunch etc.
But if a trainee is coming in at the last minute in a morning/leaving first thing the bell goes and there are issues (e.g. rooms not set up fully for period 1 / copying always needing to be done 5 mins before a lesson / not getting marking moderated) then it's fair to question whether working 830-3 is appropriate.

lady
Our provider suggests having your own transport because they can't guarantee placements will be easilly accessible by public transport (same for thr PGCE I did). We can't insist on it but do manage expectations. Some trainees seem to think that because they don'r drive and there's a school down the road then they can do their placement there and act surprised if they can't. It's not like that. Placement offers change each year.

@Piggywaspushed and @MaisyPops I do understand their reasoning- both universities have rural schools where they offer placements, and both were keen to stress they chose placements for students to try and develop them into a strong teacher, rather than for convenience. I do think it's important to manage expectations. The uni that didn't really mention having your own car was based in a much larger city, and most students have placements within the city which I guess are often served by public transport.

However, I do think it does present a barrier for poorer students. Most uni students don't own cars, and if you are going to a PGCE straight from your undergraduate degree (for example) it is a big ask to be able to afford to buy and insure a car, as well as potentially moving costs including rental deposits etc.

Anyway I don't want to derail the thread too much, but I just mentioned it because someone asked up thread.

I wanted to reiterate that I did not learn to drive until I was 26!

The school I was placed at was 20 miles from where I lived as a student but I got a bus and a train. No one had a acr (well, one chap did) There wasn't anywhere to park them on campus for a start or at most student accommodation.

I guess more people drive nowadays and it is just taken as the norm. But it does seem discriminatory not just against those in financial straits!

Im a visiting tutor for a pgce course. Our trainees are told at interview that their placements are likely to be a long way from the university when they come for interview. When placements are allocated, trainees with cars are paired up with trainees without so they can hitch a lift or in extreme cases trainees move to be nearer their placement. Commitments like childcare or parent care are taken into account generally. The trainees don’t have to be able to drive but it is helpful.
My DH didn’t pass his test until he was 32 and had been teaching at a school 27 miles from where we live. He lived there for a year (just before we were married) as the buses were at odd times. Where we live it’s quite common to have to travel a fair way to work with little public transport.

When placements are allocated, trainees with cars are paired up with trainees without so they can hitch a lift

This sounds like the beginnings of a cheeky fucker liftzilla thread!!

I would HATE to have to be responsible for ferrying someone else to and from a placement school every single day just because I had somehow manage to scrape together enough money to buy a car!

Car sharing is good for the planet and community minded. I didn't mind too much, and I'm an introvert. They gave me money for fuel.

We all need to get out of the mind set of sitting in our own cars alone. I've had other favours off other people.

I was clear that if they were late I wouldn't wait. They never were.

I had lifts to and from school for the first four years of my career : it was a great way of getting to know people and I got some excellent advice and support. It was lovely. I miss those days .

I did SCITT secondary last year. The school who had directed time to 4pm every day cost me an extra £700 in childcare for a half-term’s placement. It’s the one I didn’t take a job in, although I was asked to apply. Mentors should have protected time to cover mentoring, including meeting with students. Have you suggested FaceTime or similar in the evenings?

I would be more than happy to car share, I agree it's great for the environment and helps reduce traffic around the school- however, that does make the assumption that all trainees are coming from the same place. Some prospective trainees I met at interview were already intending to commute up to an hour to uni so they could continue to live at home, so lift sharing with someone living an hour in the other direction wouldn't really work!

That’s why placements are carefully planned - at least at our university!

I'm hoping to have passed my driving test by then and will be happy to give lifts.

A big discussion every day is too much.
A meeting once a week seems reasonable.
When the student gets he first job, she will sort out appropriate childcare for it. As a student she may be working further away from her home, have difficulties getting decent childcare hours due to not earning any money yet
I used to have two colleagues, one came in early every day and left on the bell, one came in on the bell and left later. Drove me nuts as if anything needed to be passed on between the three of us as I had to have a separate conversation with each of them. But where they do the non contact hours are up to each teacher.

I feel your pain OP. I was in a very similar position last year as an inexperienced teacher with a student in my class but not actually their official mentor.
He came in 10 minutes before the children and left not long after them. Ultimately they are there to learn from you and clock up hours in classroom.
I gave him quick verbal feedback after each lesson and left the official feedback to his official mentor.
Unless you are officially responsible for your student and have to fill in the feedback forms i'd advise to let it go.
Otherwise I'd be scheduling to do the meeting during lunch, assembly or so be it a dvd on a Friday for the last half an hour.

DH works in this field (University student placements in schools) and he says that what this student is doing would be considered unacceptable
in his university, and that you should contact the Visiting Tutor as soon as possible to discuss it.
He maintains that a meeting of at least one hour each week to discuss things is minimum and that it can't be expected to be within the working day (in a primary school, anyway).

Students teachers who do this rarely get jobs in their schools upon completion of their degree I've noticed. When I was on placement, a very good teacher friend told me 'everyday is a job interview' and I treated it as such. At the end of my course I was asked to apply for a position at every school that I had done placement at by the Principals of all five schools, and was offered a position at all of them. That wouldn't have been the case if I hadn't been prepared to put in the same amount of work as a full teacher load and swanned off at 3:30 and not been a visible presence at staff meetings and professional development sessions. It is just not realistic to expect to get the most from a professional placement by walking in on the bell and walking out straight after it.

I am aware the trainee in this scenario is primary but please don’t assume the trainees are all broke.
Several of our science trainess are on more than mps6 due to a combination of bursaries and scholarships. They earn more than many teachers in the dept, despite being on 0.5 timetable and will take a pay drop to do their NQT year 😳

It is just not realistic to expect to get the most from a professional placement by walking in on the bell and walking out straight after it.
On the whole I agree.
If someone has childcare issues, most people are happy to try to be flexible.

In my experience though, the people who have kids are organsied and proactive. They know their childcare issues so offer alternatives to meet. It's like talking to a sensible adult.

The ones who seem to do the most whining, claim they never have time for things, in late/leave early are usually the straight from uni students who act like overgrown teenagers (who increasingly think they are paying to be a teacher and we should give them QTS and offer y11 style intervention for them to drag them over the QTS line, rather than they are paying for a course which offersthem a chance to train)

It's her dececision op.you can just do what you can to help her in the time you have.