Teaching these days! Grrr

[Piggywaspushed]

So fed up of not being able to shout at a child in peace (as it were) without a) getting a load of posturing and lip and b) their parents complaining (about the teacher, obviously).

I used to love a good shout and it used to be rather effective.

That is all.

I'm secondary, and I never shout. Just shows them you have lost control of the situation

Shouting daily is hopeless.

Projecting and emphasising is necessary.

Shouting every now and then at a deserving rogue is useful.

I was giving a talk last week to a group of second level students. They started chatting and their teacher gave them a really good telling off (with volume included for good measure) they were like kittens immediately after. Worked a treat.

I'm quite about some of the replies on here. As a teacher your voice is a major part of mainstream teaching. You have to use it in a multitude of ways to different effect. Shouting does not mean you have lost your temper as much as whispering means you are shy. Body language tells students if you ever 'lose it' or if you are nervous or shy.

deserving rogue is an excellent turn of phrase.

I described what the student had done to DS1. he said I bet you really let her have it !

all the things I shouted said have been repeated back verbatim

And your response should be 'do you disagree with the substance of what I said, or merely the tone?'

I think it was the substance actually!!

I like that one noblegiraffe.

There are definitely moments when "That's eee-NUFFF!" is the correct thing. Then drop the volume to the quiet, menacing, clearly enunciated, hiss. It's not about losing control. It's making it clear to the pack who is the Alpha.

I work in AP now and shouting would be a very bad idea. I do miss the occasional carefully applied bellow.

Teacher of 15 years here. I love some judicious shouting. As a pp said, the way you use your voice is part of your toolkit.
In 15 years I reckon I’ve ‘uncontrolled’ shouted twice (and I did apologise). On other all other occasions shouting has just been a tool.

"That's eee-NUFFF!"

I like 'OUT'. Straight to the point.

I always think that Infant teachers are hilarious when they give children into trouble. They use psychological warfare ('I am SO sad') and yet us bellowers get flak.

There's loss of control shouting which is awful. It reminds me of a colleague i ended up coaching. I can still hear them now. It was painful and the students found it hilarious (and awfully, I could see why).

Then there's a stern/firm tone of voice
with a raised tone for a controlled bollocking - when used rarely and only for good reasons it can be very effective

I do know what you mean though piggy on the don't use a loud voice, don't shout, don't give direct instructions, don't stray close to sarcasm, don't tell them anything negative about their work etc in case some raging person calls up (probably having done a school thread on here) demanding to see the head.

I'm quite a cheerful bubbly teacher. I very rarely shout (as in stern raised tone, not losing it) but I have it on reliable authority from some students that apparently word on the student grapevine is that I'm 'strict but actually she's really nice when you're in her class'. I'l take that. Not a bad reputation to have: nice but doesn't take shit.

I do feel sorry for young teachers now because there are really so few sanctions.

I have a similar reputation (don't annoy me, we'll get good results and we'll do the occasional 'fun' activity), but I built it up during the years when it wasn't a failure to send Jack to SMT. SMT would tear him a new one and his mother wouldn't be pleased with him either. Not now.

Behaviour management for NQTs has been reduced down to 'building good relationships'.

Behaviour management for NQTs has been reduced down to 'building good relationships
And plan an engaging lesson / hook them in with football and fidget spinners. Get them to map read using pokemon go.

Behaviour management for NQTs has been reduced down to 'building good relationships'.

Surely this is a good thing?

No, because you need them to behave even when you haven't had the time or ability to build a good relationship with them.

No, it's not.

1- Relationships take time to develop.
2- You can't build good relationships with 100+ kids with one 'getting to know you' lesson.
3- Good behaviour should be expected, not a prize for winning friends among gobby thirteen year olds

Building good relationships happens over time. It takes a while to get to know 30 individuals, let alone build positive relationships. If you can't instill discipline and have 30 individuals quiet when you talk to them from the outset you don't have a hope of building good relationships.

I understand the point about one off classes or classes you have just met but I think you can start building effective relationships pretty quickly.

Surely, in the context of your own regular classes, a positive relationship is more effective than shouting / showboating?

Sorry, I type too slowly on a Friday night.

I'm only beginning to develop 'positive relationships' with some of the classes I've had since Sept (in that I'm beginning to get to know them personally). I might only have them once every second week as the timetable works out.

We've covered a lot of ground academically. I wouldn't have been able to do that with good behaviour management. That covers lots of things bar shouting- giving instructions clearly, seating plans, resource organisation, praising and sanctioning as appropriate.

Of course experience counts for a lot but no-one seems interested in teaching NQTs all of that^. They just want to harp on about 'positive relationships'.

That covers lots of things bar shouting- giving instructions clearly, seating plans, resource organisation, praising and sanctioning as appropriate.

This is developing a positive relationship. You don't have to know students personally as such to do this but you do all this ^ and show you are consistent, work oriented, have clear boundaries, targets, are available to support learning etc and a good working relationship is established. They know your expectations and you know theirs. It's a professional relationship and what you describe are the building blocks of it.

I disagree. That's classroom management.

Positive relationships for me= getting to names, siblings, sports, hobbies, passions, pets, favourite bands, chatting to them about their weekends etc.

The problem for many NQTs (in my very humble opinion) is that the second category is regarded as being the most important- hence the daft 'getting to know you' activities like 'people bingo'.

I think you have to be a role model in class and demonstrate the behaviour you want to see.

Shouting is horrible. Sorry, but I hate it.