Parents are not customers?

[Avocadostone]

I have come from a corporate environment into a support role leading other support staff in a new school with a growing positive reputation. Since I started, we as a team we have always focused on ensuring that we deal with parents in a very professional way, I also keep an eye on social media, and when parents are grumbling about something (in number) and we could have done better I follow it up at school. Head has told me that basically he doesn't want me to pander to social media and that parents are not customers, and to paraphrase, it's our school so they can like it or lump it. Unless they email us, I'm to ignore it (unless it's a burning issue). I feel like the rug has been pulled out from beneath me. Is this how most schools see things? I tried to explore with the head how social media is useful and how many people communicate this way, but the Head has a very traditional /fixed view on this. It has really upset me, and I will of course do as instructed, but I've spend most of the weekend wondering if this is right job for me. We never even got to discuss the impact on students through poor /inaccurate comms etc...another example is school events? I asked if we could collate a plan for the year of key school events and was told, no, a couple of months notice is sufficient. It's driving me up the wall. I'm offloading as I guess I either do the same as parents - lump it or like it! I am very near to lumping it!!!

Twice I've dealt with schools who were not meeting the needs of my child and where school standards were declining. Twice I was spoken to as a subordinate and put in my place and told they know best and will not have parents setting out standards and if I don't like it to go elsewhere.

Some parents do have choices. One child has just taken a first. One hopes to go to Cambridge having got all A*s at A'Level.

Both schools have declined and have list their outstandings under those heads, one of whom was displaced six months after my DC left.

I think the world is changing and many many SLTs and teachers need to appreciate that many parents are well educated and know what is right for their children and quite rightly expect standards of excellence and for schools to look to achieve the highest common denominator rather than the lowest.

There were a number of occasions when I was barked at by state school staff or witnessed jaw dropping yelling fits at small children. Notwithstanding the school where a head thought she could sweep assault, theft, pyromania and foul language under the carpet. When I have choices and higher expectations than that actually I will exercise my choice and make the reasons crystal clear to the governors.

I think many schools would do well to listen to the tide and change with it. Just because some families might not have choices that doesn't mean their children should have to experience poor standards, low expectations and embedded failure.

DH and I work full time. Two months notice isn't manageable except in emergencies.

Exactly! And engaging with it only reinforces the idea that it's a valid way to get the school to respond to you, which encourages more of it.

MaisyPops yes. I'm not sure what role the OP is in but as an example. I had to pick DD up for a hospital appointment. I was there early so had to wait a good 20 minutes for her to come to the reception once she'd finished her PE lesson.

In those 20 minutes, the receptionist had to deal with three students who were poorly bless them, two parents who's come in for meetings, another parent who'd come in for a look around and had to keep answering the phone in between which was ringing off the hook. They wouldn't have had time to check social media even if they wanted to.

The only time I've ever known schools to follow up social media issues is when they've been libellous against the schools, or the staff. Which is fair enough.

in terms of relationships between teachers and families they are still professional relationships and not customer service relationships.
And i think this is what the OP is missing.

I have no doubt they have some good experience and would be able to make good suggestions to the school, but to do that well they need to understand that as someone new to yhe sector, THEY are the inexperienced one.
Saying 'i feel like lumping it' is a bit like 'my corporate way is best and because the head isn't falling over to agree with me then THEY must be the problem'.

A little humility and willingness to consider that the state education sector isn't the corporate world would go a long way.

There were a number of occasions when I was barked at by state school staff or witnessed jaw dropping yelling fits at small children.

Me room. But I went through the proper channels. Bitching about it on social media is not productive, it helps no-one, especially not my child.

Me *too, sorry I don't know where the room came from!

I'm offloading as I guess I either do the same as parents - lump it or like it! I am very near to lumping it!!!

OP, would you say this directly to the head in these terms? If not, can you see the irony of your post?

There is a balance to be struck here. Parents ARE customers in the sense that schools are funded based on numbers and if the parents take their custom elsewhere then the school's income drops; too many times and the school becomes unviable. I appreciate this isn't an issue where schools are vastly oversubscribed but it is s big issue in rural areas and others where schools are not full. I am not suggesting that schools pander to parents' every whim and demand but good schools work in partnership with parents. Too many school staff treat parents as an inconvenience. I also think social media does play a part today and to ignore this reality is foolish.

If you're on here moaning about declining standards in schools then please write to your MP urging action about the catastrophic teacher recruitment and retention crisis, including headteachers who are in very short supply, and the level of funding cuts facing schools.

Lots of problems can be traced back to that, tbh.

There is a balance to be struck here. Parents ARE customers in the sense that schools are funded based on numbers and if the parents take their custom elsewhere then the school's income drops; too many times and the school becomes unviable

They're not though really. Unless it's a fee paying school.

jonsnowswife I really don't think that I was implying that those who don't work are not committed to their children's education. However obviously it is easier (in general) for non working parents to attend events scheduled within working hours so they are not disadvantaged by my kids' school putting on parents evenings that finish at 5pm.

If you're on here moaning about declining standards in schools then please write to your MP urging action about the catastrophic teacher recruitment and retention crisis, including headteachers who are in very short supply, and the level of funding cuts facing schools.
But that won't happen, just like the people bitching on social media (generally) can't be arsed to go through the appropriate channels to raise their concerns.

I see more people (again loud minority) bitching about tiny things like trainers, detentions, whining on social media etx than I do being concerned that their child may be taught by an unqualified non-specialist. Some schools are being propped up by Teach First who don't require a degree in the subject they teach (not after a debate on TF just pointing out some schools near me have almost entire core departments staffed that way). Schools are cutting loads of things out of necessity and yet these huge things aren't what people complain about.

Maisy as I already said, I am not suggesting you "start events at 6pm to fit around (my) job". If you are already running events until 7 you are accommodating working parents well. That is different from the situation I am describing where my kids' primary FINISHES parents evening at 4:45 two out of three nights and FINISHES at 5:45 on the supposed 'late night', enabling about 3 parents to book appointments after 5:30.

When I pick my kids up from school the playground is full of parents, so I think at least at primary, parents evening starting straight after school is way more convenient re childcare than having to go home then come back later. Also there can't be that many children where both parents work in jobs where they can't finish early enough a couple of times a year to make it to school before 5. Inconvenient isn't the same as impossible.

At one point, we were expected to send out 'parental satisfaction questionnaires' to all parents and produce statistics on this. As staff pointed out before this happened, parental satisfaction is based on how much a parent feels they have got from the school wanted they wanted. How happy they are with it. For the majority of parents, absolutely: they want good quality information, good relationships with their child's teacher, to see their child make good progress, be happy and safe. Great. But for a proportion of parents what they want isn't compatible with doing a good professional job for their child. For some parents, parental dissatisfaction was an indicator of how well the school staff had done their job: for example consistently reporting child protection concerns until a child was on a child protection plan with a court considering removing that child following multiple incidents of evidence of abuse.

old
We are secondary so our parents have to get round more staff in the time. Most of our parents will visit 10-12 teachers on parents' evening. We start at 4 and go right through to 6:30/7
If all working parents decided to turn up at 620 and it ended at 630 because it suited them then they would not get to see all the teachers.
The length of our parents' evening is a logistic decision do because of the number of students (around 250) and the number of staff (around 80) not to fit in around people working & wanting a late appointment.

Expecting a primary teacher who teaches 30 children to stay back until 7 to accomodate a tiny number of parents who would prefer to have it later is unreasonable.

Inconvenient isn't the same as impossible
This. And if it's a real issue then teachers can call home on another evening, much easier at primary.

Inconvenient isn't the same as impossible

The DCs Dad works very odd shift times. He can't do early morning, or afternoons, not even evenings when he's doing overtime. Instead, we contact the school, tell them off the difficulty and they are more than obliging to arrange another time when he can get time off work.

As a PP said. Part and parcel of having kids that we'll be inconvenienced from time to time.

I do think the op has something of a point though. When my DC attended state schools I felt beleaguered with comments such as "I've been here since 8 this morning" or the head blasting "it's 7.15 so can parents be aware staff will be finishing at 7.30 sharp and have to travel home". What do they think other working people do all day? I worked locally 9.30-6 with prep at home when my DC were younger; my DH regularly worked 7.30-9.30. It's the attitude that parents' have no notion of hard work that incrementally chips away at relationships and frankly the way things are said. It Didn't happen in the independent sector - we got a smile from the head and possibly a handshake and the chance to say thank you because we felt welcomed rather than a nuisance.

We also followed the rules and paid the £300 per year requested by the state school. They'd have got a shed load more if staff had been more professional.

Further up the school, we'd gone by then, I gather girls taking triple science had the same teaching as those taking double and were expected to teach themselves the extra with no additional guided learning. I'm aware several parents complained to the governors about that - through the proper channels but it was a school in a privileged catchment and on the skids. Parents did care. It took the governors five years to get shot of the head. It was tragic. Last year no girl went to Oxbridge or got into medicine from the school for the first time in 25 years. Four of five girls who walked before yr 10 did. I think that speaks volumes about why schools should be mindful of customer service.

"it's 7.15 so can parents be aware staff will be finishing at 7.30 sharp and have to travel home". What do they think other working people do all day
What's wrong with that?
It's better than an old school I worked in where parents would turn up at ending time and staff were pressured into staying for another hour because they didn't sort their time out.

I wouldn't expect my hairdresser to do a full foils, cut and blow dry if I turned up half an hour before she finishes. I've been working all day wouldn't be a reason to expect her to stay late.

Other things you have a genuine reason to be annoyed, but as people have said where there are real concerns there are channrls to raise them. Those other things that are poor doesn't make it unreasonable for staff to want parents' evening yo finish at a reasonable time.

It's the attitude that parents' have no notion of hard work that incrementally chips away at relationships

And it's the attitude that teachers can give just a little more time to their job all the time that is causing a huge exodus of teachers.

"Oh but I was only ten minutes late, why couldn't the teacher have waited" soon adds up. It is entirely reasonable, when the teacher has worked for possibly 12 hours already, that they can clock off promptly.

It astounds me that anyone who works in a school has the time to keep an eye on social media in the first place!

I'm marketing manager in a school and this is part of my role, I feed back serious concerns to SLT.

Op, I agree with you. I also come from a corporate environment and my HT recognises strengths on both sides - teaching / pastoral and business / comms. Good schools should have both.

How big is your school?

Our school always say you can make an appointment out with parents evening for those parents who can't make parents evening and emphasise that if you have concerns you can always make an appointment with the class teacher anyway...

Fair enough I think.

Snowfairy - yes school marketing is my area of responsibility, as well as a number of other areas.... large school.

I am a teacher who started out in the corporate world and I would say that parents are very definitely customers. But they are not customers that are always right. The tail mustn't wag the dog.

As with any model/analogy, this is a place where it is useful, and places where it falls apart.

Ok, mine too (large state comp).

The calendar surprises me, I'm also the trips coordinator so need plenty of time to know what is planned to get p/w / trips training etc arranged.

Your HT sounds a bit of a dinosaur. Do you think the govs hired you over his head? It's so odd to hire someone to take things forward like this but not to actually support them.

(I also deal with lettings - a colleague in another school said her HT wouldn't pay for the lights to be kept on after school for their hirers - utterly ridiculous ).

I think schools should reflect on issues raised on social media.

I'm a teacher and a parent. Social media was used this summer by parents at my dc's school to ask if there was anyway clubs could run longer for a fee as it would help a lot of parents out. School considered and extended clubs. Lots of very happy parents.

Some schools can be very stuck in the past I think in partnerships with parents and the way things have always been done. Granted, you can't make everyone happy, some things are just not practical and some people just love to moan. But every so often what is being discussed could be actioned and could be very positive. I think it's a good idea to keep an eye and evaluate objectively.