Parents are not customers?

[Avocadostone]

I have come from a corporate environment into a support role leading other support staff in a new school with a growing positive reputation. Since I started, we as a team we have always focused on ensuring that we deal with parents in a very professional way, I also keep an eye on social media, and when parents are grumbling about something (in number) and we could have done better I follow it up at school. Head has told me that basically he doesn't want me to pander to social media and that parents are not customers, and to paraphrase, it's our school so they can like it or lump it. Unless they email us, I'm to ignore it (unless it's a burning issue). I feel like the rug has been pulled out from beneath me. Is this how most schools see things? I tried to explore with the head how social media is useful and how many people communicate this way, but the Head has a very traditional /fixed view on this. It has really upset me, and I will of course do as instructed, but I've spend most of the weekend wondering if this is right job for me. We never even got to discuss the impact on students through poor /inaccurate comms etc...another example is school events? I asked if we could collate a plan for the year of key school events and was told, no, a couple of months notice is sufficient. It's driving me up the wall. I'm offloading as I guess I either do the same as parents - lump it or like it! I am very near to lumping it!!!

I wish you were involved in my kids' school.
Whilst we are not strictly speaking customers, we are in theory partners in the education of our children and I loathe the attitude of some schools that we parents must 'like it or lump it'. My kids' school has a very high percentage of working parents and yet puts on nothing ever after 6pm at the absolute latest. This either disenfranchises those with inflexible jobs, or forces us to use annual leave or other flexible working to attend parents' evening, for example. They get a good attendance because we are as a rule professional parents committed to our children's education who will make arrangements to attend assemblies, parents evenings, etc despite the timetabling but oh, wouldn't it be lovely if there were just ONE non- working hours option each time. My husband's job isn't flexible and he misses so much stuff in school because of this.

I think as with most things, a balanced view would involve taking notice of social media and addressing key issues. But I doubt you'll make it happen in that school.

The thing on parents' evening is that staff can't go home between so they end up with trapped time.
Teachers are often in from 7:30/8am. Should we have 2-3 hours of trapped time to start parents' evening at 6/7 because most people are professionals in thay catchment? Then do a 3 hour parents'evening? Finish at 9/10? Many staff live 30mins to an hour away.

The standard working day is 9-5. By finishing at 6/630 there is space for people who do that day. We can't cater to everyone's work patterns. The last few schools I've been at tend to run parents' eve until 7ish. And even then we get notes in saying 'can i have an appointment at 715 because...' No. Parents' evenings are part of having children. It's like when people are annoyed about school holidays and training days. They aren't new things.

I'm with you to a point op - there are plenty of dates that can be put on the calendar in advance - obviously term dates (and it's nice to have next year's term dates too), open evenings, the Christmas concert, the school play, sports day (plus a couple of spare dates if it's wet), the summer fete and the Leaver's Service for example - most of these will have set dates anyway even if just in terms of the Christmas carol concert is on the Thursday and Friday of the last full week of the winter term.

If you put the main dates in (and full details - dc's school is getting better at putting things in the online calendar before they happen but they just put a title, times if we are lucky, but no useful details!) then it's fine to add other things in later, especially with a couple of months to spare.

It would also be useful to have a list of things that you expect to happen and expected dates and costs - so things like all the trips (y7 - history trip to Warwick Castle in November, last year's cost £20, y8 trip to British Museum in March, expected cost approx £15-25, mock exams in January, we usually support Red Nose Day (month xx) and children in need (month yy) and give pupils a vote on a third charity day to support. All details subject to confirmation which will be put on the school calendar and notified through the school news page on the website and in the newsletter. Any updates, changes, additions or cancellations will be notified in the same way.

When I was a school we had a 'blue book' which had everybody's name, house and class in, all the teachers, all the term dates and most of the other dates for events that happened through the year - there was also space to add a couple of extra things that might arise during the course of the year. Plus there were blank timetable pages to fill in, useful reference info and some school facts. If it was possible to create something like that in the pre internet age then it should be easier now!

It's true that the parents aren't customers but if parents aren't contacting school when they have a problem but grumbling on social media then that's a massive red flag that communications between school and parents are failing, regardless of how good the school is seen to be.

Sorry I didn't mean to rant, but people forget that many teachers are parents too. They sort childcare etc for parents' evenings. They have to make it work.
It's part of having kids.

Why should teachers do a full day at work then have trapped time just to fit in around people who want something to start around their job?
In fact more often than not, teachers who are parents never get to the assemblies etc because they are in school so can't go. But that's part of the job. We wouldn't expect anotjer school to cater around us.

I think in a private school they are customers, but in a state school not!

In fact more often than not, teachers who are parents never get to the assemblies etc because they are in school so can't go.

Which is why I'm always so baffled about the raised eyebrows and sneers if I tell them I may not be able to be there to see DS1 get a certificate at assembly on Friday morning when they first tell me about it on Thursday afternoon. 'Oh, but most of the other mothers prioritise being there....'

I agree with the idea of having a yearly date list - ,we have one, it gets updated regularly. It works well.

However, parents are not customers or my primary concern. I am concerned about the children. I'll listen to the opinions of parents , but I'm not going to build my work around pleasing them. I know parents in my class have a whatsapp. I don't care what happens on it. I certainly would not go joining it to answer queries.

Agree with Maisy, school events are during the school day for a reason. I work my contracted hours and then more to complete my paperwork, displays, resources etc. Some days I stay late, some days I dont. I would resent anyone trying to make me stay late in work.

Our school do publish an annual parental calendar. So I know dates of everything from parents eve/school trips/Prom etc for both dc's. I have to request my leave a year in advance so for events which occasionally take place during the day or start straight after school, it's invaluable.
I don't think it's worth trawling for problems on social media, everyone likes a whinge and that's all they're doing. If it turns into a problem then that's when they'll get in touch directly.

I use flexi for parents evenings a d accept there are other things I can't attend because I am at work. My children have to accept that too.

The only thing thing that irritates slightly is that it is thst it's the parents who do not work ft and who volunteer st the school have a lot of traction with the school but I guess that's their reward for having the time to give.

But that's

Stuff comes up as the year goes on. Teachers often don't find out what class/es they'll be teaching till the last minute and have way more to get their head round than booking and setting the precise date for a trip next April. If you want it all fixed well in advance then expect to see the number of things offered drop substantially as teachers cannot then take advantage of things advertised during the year, or ideas that come to them while planning a topic.

As for trawling social media for grumbles about the school....! You have way too much time on your hands. Parents whinge about school all the time. They whinge on here, they whinge to their mates, they whinge on Facebook. They don't necessarily want people reading their whinges, and indeed might feel snooped on if word got out that someone was watching. Give them their space to have their whinge like normal people, if they are stirred enough that they want school to know about it, they will let you know. If you are concerned that they are whinging and don't have a forum to raise issues properly, then perhaps you could institute a feedback form (yearly?) but don't expect to see even half the social media whinges on there.

The only thing thing that irritates slightly is that it is thst it's the parents who do not work ft and who volunteer st the school have a lot of traction with the school but I guess that's their reward for having the time to give
It shouldn't be their 'reward'.
It's no different from giving additional airtime and attention to gossips on social media.

If they want to volunteer, fine. But it should have zero influence on anything school related / linked to their DC.

We don't have them at secondary but if i had a parent helper who expected favours for their time, I'd decline the voluntary help.

Maisy
When I was a teacher we had one late eve parents' evening. The staff had pizza brought in and a good chat in the staff room. I'm not suggesting that every single event should be outside the school day, but once a year isn't too much to ask I think. If you are running til 7 you are already doing that anyway. My kids' school has 3evenings twice a year. 2 of the evenings in each batch are 3:30 to 4:45. The other is the "late concession" for working parents where appointments run all the way to 5:45. Woohoo. So all the working parents scramble for the last 3 appointments and miss out. If my school offered appointments after 6 once a frigging year I would be more than happy. The secondary school parents' evening does. What is so different about the primary?

The difference with primary, oldbirdy is the number of kids seen in one evening.

What I mean, is, secondary parents evenings go past 6 because they're maybe 3 hours long, not because they start late.

I think the calendar point might be solved by looking at how other schools manage it. For instance, the school my kids are at has an online calendar which has a one liner and TBC on quite a lot of the dates, and then nearer the time we get the where / when / who bit in the weekly newsletter (which has a two week 'look ahead' section). Would that be a reasonable compromise?

I also keep an eye on social media, and when parents are grumbling about something (in number) and we could have done better I follow it up at school.

How do you know they are actually parents of pupils at the school?

The reason the statutory sector limits its engagement via social media is that there is no way of confirming that the people complaining are actually service users - and there are regulations, protocols and conventions that apply to responses to "the public" depending on how they engage with the service.

Noble my kids' secondary parents evening starts at 5 and runs til 8.... So it's not about the number of appointments.

old
We do one parents' eve a year per year group. I teach 6 out of 7 year groups. Like hell am I doing another night to accomodate people who think I should start events at 6 to fit around their job. For a start, as it stands people prioritise parents' evening and attend. Create a late nighy once a year and suddenly I could have the parents of 90 children all want to see me because it was a bit easier for them to not come to school for 6. Where does that leave me? I can't see them all in the time.

I'd rather run each year group parents' evening til 6:30/7 with a fixed cut off as in it ENDS at 7 so don't turn up at the end and then expect me to accomodate you when I'm seeing my last parent (some did that one year and i had 6 parents turn up bang on 7 so I was there late. Nowadays I'd apologise and offer to call them, but at the time i felt pushed into staying).

Parents are not customers, going through social media and trying to address every moan is also not viable. The head is right, you deal with issues directly brought to you, not what you identify on a social media platform.

^^this.

Many schools have a high pupil intake, 500+. Dealing with every single social media gripe will mean you will get very little time for anything else. (It's why supermarkets have dedicated social media workers - it's a full time job - and with all the best will in the world there's just simply not the time for it in a school environment).

It astounds me that anyone who works in a school has the time to keep an eye on social media in the first place!

But I agree with PPs that you shouldn't be engaging with complaints and rants on social media - there will be procedures in place for parents to raise concerns; if they're valid concerns (or the parents really feel strongly), they'll raise them through the proper channels. If the parents have decided it's more appropriate to rant to their friends on social media than to speak to class teachers or the head, then trust them to have chosen the correct platform.

Also, people spout a load of utter bollocks on social media just to have something to say, so whilst some issues might be important, others will just be attention-seeking pettiness. I really hope the parents at my kids' schools aren't spending time on this stuff when they could be focussing on educating my children.

OP, having also done both, I agree working in a school when you're used to being in a corporate is a huge culture shock. Just trust the head and try to fall in. It will get easier but things are different for you now.

They get a good attendance because we are as a rule professional parents committed to our children's education who will make arrangements to attend assemblies, parents evenings, etc despite the timetabling but oh, wouldn't it be lovely if there were just ONE non- working hours option each time. My husband's job isn't flexible and he misses so much stuff in school because of this.

Parents who don't work for a variety of reasons, SAHMs/Carers for young people/Carers for their spouses/Ill health or disabilities are also committed to their child's education.

JonSnowsWife
Exactly! And engaging with it only reinforces the idea that it's a valid way to get the school to respond to you, which encourages more of it.

I can think of many things in life thay have annoyed me, but not annoyed me enough to report or complain properly. I'll rant to friends and think no more of it.
If it was a real issue they'd do things properly.

One of my dc is at at Private Secondary school and one is at State Primary
At the Private school we are treated much more like "customers" as I suppose we could actually take our custom elsewhere and they would lose money. At the state school ( which is very over subscribed as it's excellent) while the staff DO make an effort to engage with parents and treat them fairly they know that if I withdraw my child there are at least 3 or 4 more desperate to take their place

Parents aren't customers. Teachers are professionals, not service providers, and while they work in partnership with parents the primary concern is always the child, not the parents.

Looking at serious case reviews, what comes up again and again and again, unchanged despite all the work resulting from poor little Victoria Climbe's case, is professionals getting overly bogged down in the needs, demands and claims on their time from parents and losing sight of the child as the primary focus and concern. Sometimes parents' wants and best interests clash with their child's best interests, and teachers have to be not only ready and able to keep the child as the primary focus, but have a professional relationship with parents.

In the private schools I've worked in, yes parents are paying for education and have expectations based on what they are buying, but in terms of relationships between teachers and families they are still professional relationships and not customer service relationships.

Noble my kids' secondary parents evening starts at 5 and runs til 8

They could easily pull it back by half an hour. Ours run 4:30-7:30 and when there's a choice, not many parents book after 7. Obviously teachers need a bit of time after school before it starts to get something to eat because 3 hours of talking is a long run and you couldn't reasonably start that at 3:45 after a day's teaching.