Sending a child out of the class

[Daredevil]

I've name hanged for this as school have found Internet posts in the past.

I'm a parent whose dh is s teacher. Dh has a strong opinion on an incident that happened with ds & I wanted to know opinions from other teachers as to what happened.

Ds (year 7) we strongly suspect he has an ASD but getting a diagnoses is virtually impossible due to funding. We were refused a referral when he was in primary despite the school nurse & senco appealing. We are currently waiting for an ed psych assessment.

Ds passed for a grammar school. It's been a difficult transition, he's had several meltdowns at school & each time I've been called to take him home but recently he's been doing well although he gets distracted/frustrated easily. He appears very young/immature for his age & he is incredibly disorganised.

Last week he fell & hurt himself & had to have a dressing on his hand but it started to heal nicely. However the one day it was bothering him (dressing off by this point) & he was distracting others because he was distracted by his hand. So he got a reprimand but unfortunately he'd had several reprimands about stuff that week forgotten kit, not handing in homework he had done etc) so it triggered a detention.

He got really upset about this as he felt it was unfair & started arguing with the teacher. Teacher said he was very rude & sent him out of the classroom (unfortunately ds doesn't always realise when he is appearing rude especially when he's het up about perceived unfairness).

Was there any way this could have been handled better or did the teacher do the right thing. His head of year says this behaviour is not acceptable & the other students can't see him get away with stuff.

Unfortunately the situation escalated & he's now in big trouble.

They are acting inappropriately if it is evident that he needs extra support. However, it is not reasonable for individual teachers to realise that adjustments need to be made and implement them. You need to arrange a meeting with the SENCO.

He's got an IEP I think.

Well when he started the school we sent the ed psych report we have & had a netting & they made a plan or something which I had to read & sign about what his difficulties are & strategies.

What do you think they should have done? Sometimes having the space and quiet to calm down is the only thing to do when someone is getting out of control. If he had stayed in the room it may well have been worse. Having said all that I think you need to start the ball rolling again for diagnosis if you do think he has Asd so that you can then start to get school on board in helping him. I would also make an appointment with the school and ask them to start managing him in a way compatible with how they would manage a child with Asd. You may discover that this school isn't right for him anyway if they are not helpful. Even without the diagnosis you can still apply for assessment ny the local authority if you think his needs aren't being met.

His head of year says this behaviour (the hiding rather than just the rudeness) is unacceptable. )

When he's not get up he's an incredibly sweet natured child.

Sadly this will be DS2 in 2 years time. He would probably have reacted in the same way.

We are in the process of getting a diagnosis for him in primary, but school were not supportive of our concerns until last year as he was achieving their milestones academically. He is bright, funny and affectionate, but easily distracted, can't cope with a lot of normal children issues and has melt downs over perceived unfairness.

I am worried he will transition to high school with no diagnosis, because we will be in the same position as yourself.

TBH I think most teachers would have done the same, and I know the training for SEN for most teachers is woeful.

Our diagnosis process started last April, but we are not even a 1/3 of the way through the system. It started with us finally getting a referral from the GP to a sympathetic consultant. School have been happy to bleat about him having meltdowns but not been prepared to help us really.

OK, you need to know that he has one, and what is on it, that all teachers have access to it, and that the suggested strategies are effective ones. You need another meeting, given that you have been asked to collect him several times already. What they have put in place is not effective.

Cansu - we thought the school were treating him as they would a child with ASD.

What dh thinks should have happened is to send for the LSA/senco so he wasn't alone.

I feel like an absolute failure as a parent

The SENCO might well be teaching. TAs will be supporting other children. There needs to be an agreed protocol, and everyone needs to be aware of it.

And again I would suggest trying for a referral through the GP.

I suspect if you posted is in the SN section you would get very different responses.

Even if he doesn't have a diagnosis it shouldn't make a difference (but it does). Support is supposed to be needs led, not diagnosis led, but that's rubbish, as several posters here have pointed out.
A child doesn't suddenly become autistic when they eventually get a diagnosis, they are autistic before that point too. I imagine there's a clear paper trail of refused referrals, so anyone refusing support because he has no diagnosis is complicit in letting down this child and his family. Especially when he has had meltdowns in school and presumably you have been open about his issues.

If I were you I would be pushing for another referral, complaining through PALS. Failing that, I would go private.
I would also consider moving to a school which will offer support, if one exists in your area!

It's not you! Moving to secondary means there are loads more people involved. They all need to being communicating. Unfortunately, it sounds like you need to be a bit direct with the SENCO to get this to happen.

I also don't understand why you need more money for a diagnosis of ASD.

My DS1 has an ASD diagnosis, finally given to us after years of to-ing and froing to the hospital (looong story not relevant here); at no point did I have to pay for specialist apts/ed psych etc.

Are you not in the UK OP?

I agree with others btw, a student who is arguing with a teacher needs to be removed from the room before it gets worse. I agree, suggest to school he be given a TO card if they do that?

I would call him back into the room after a couple of mins btw and if he had vanished, I would email all staff so someone could find him. The hiding in a cupboard for an hour is not OK (for anyone)

Im trained in ASD and wouldn't do this, but then I probably wouldn't be working in that type of school! Unfortunately there is still a perception that special needs and attainment are one in the same. Meaning children who are high attaining, but highly impacted by their special need are left woefully unsupported. I would have a big go about this teacher, but I would see if you can get any traction with senior teachers about training and skills.

Sorry, wouldn't have a big go

Even before any IEP paperwork is updated an email should go around to all his teachers saying what happened and the agreed procedure which should be used to avoid it happening again.

Sorry x-posted with lots of people about the dx for ASD.

Agree you need to approach the school and set up a strategy for this. He clearly has issues that need to be dealt with, whether or not he has a dx. Sorry OP that you are going through this.

...imho, they will prioritise kids who are causing a problem -wasn't getting anywhere getting my boy (with diagnosis) sorted. One day he hit someone - then it was all hands on deck. I am not saying you want it to get that bad. What I am saying is they have 1001 other things to attend to - you don't want to be so annoying they want to avoid dealing with you, but you do need I am afraid to keep nagging, chasing etc.

I'm so sorry - I started the thread trying to be factual & dispassionate but some of the comments about how teachers would have treated this bad behaviour have been difficult to cope with/difficult for me to accept & I got a bit teary.

He loves school & doesn't want to move. Our local school is appalling & we though that a smaller school would be better as he doesn't cope in large, noisy environments.

But maybe we were wrong. The head said he didn't necessarily need a diagnoses as they could put strategies in place.

I will try the GP again.

Clary, my ds was diagnosed last year, we had to fund his OT assessment as the paed would not refer him for it, as "he's not severe enough".
We are in a position at the moment where we're waiting to see if we need to bring in a private EP (at a cost of nearly £2000) because school is still in denial even though he has a diagnosis.
We had to go private for his diagnosis because our local ASD team are notorious for diagnosing only the more severe, Canner's type ASD and wouldn't diagnose ds as he wasn't severe enough in school (ie. they saw signs but left them out of his report)
Some areas in the UK are dreadful for ASD diagnosis and services.

Devil, could you ask for another meeting with the head to discuss his needs? (Sounds like he made a good sale's pitch)
Could school refer him to ed psych? Enhanced mainstream services?

Philphil - what you describe sounds so familiar.

I gave up my unsocial hours/stressful job last summer as I couldn't cope with its demands & the difficulties my children were facing & it's a good job I did as I wouldn't have managed. However financially it was hard.

But I've got a more school hours friendly job where I can catch up if I have to leave to get ds from school so hopefully financial stuff will get easier.

DD school have a pass system to go the the SEN room - the kids hang out in the toilets til end of lesson.

It doesn't always follow - sorry

School shouldn't need a diagnosis.

If he's presenting lots of ASD traits, the SENCO should put strategies in place without a diagnosis. Why wouldn't they?

This is what school have done for my DS. So they just in general show more understanding for the things he finds hard.

I'd make an appointment with the SENCO and see how she can help you.

Do you claim DLA for him? It's needs based, so you don't need a diagnosis to claim.
It could help financially towards any appointments you need.

I doubt he'd be eligible for DLA - though I don't know much about it.