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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

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Original poster

Part time and teacher training days

54 replies

lurkinginthenorth · 16/09/2015 21:37

I'm going part time after maternity leave. I haven't received my contract yet but am wondering how many teacher training days I HAVE to do for a three day week.
My days are Wednesday, Thursday and Friday so stupidly I have to go in on my days off which means over a year, I'll work more days than my partner teacher who works Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
Can anyone enlighten me as to how this all works????

OP posts:

Littlefish · 16/09/2015 21:46

Funnily enough, I had a conversation with our office manager about this very thing today.

The way she explained it is this...

Your salary includes the 3 training days you have to work (if you work 3 days a week). If those days fall on your non-working days, then you have to attend them, as you have already been paid for them.

In theory, if you work your other 2 days in a different school and are therefore unable to do the 3 training days, you could, in theory, be asked to repay 3 days' salary to your first school.

samsonthecat · 16/09/2015 21:47

If you're on a 0.6 contract then you do 0.6 of the total amount of inset. In practice you probably do all inset which falls on the days you work. I believe that you can't be directed to work on your non contracted days. Certainly that's how it works for me in my school. However I usually manage to do more inset than I need to and will come in willingly when I am able for parents evenings etc on non teaching days. The management appreciate this and will let me go to things at my own children's school on the odd occasion I have asked. A bit of flexibility is always appreciated.

Orangeanddemons · 16/09/2015 21:53

In our school we have to do however many is equal to the time we attend. I work 3 days so do 3 training days. We are told which ones are compulsory and then we choose the rest.

PotteringAlong · 16/09/2015 21:56

I do all the training days that fall on my days in work.

IguanaTail · 16/09/2015 22:07

It depends. I have worked somewhere where you choose 0.6 worth. I've worked somewhere where you come in only on the days you work, so if inset was on a Monday and you work Tue-Thu you don't come in.

LindyHemming · 16/09/2015 23:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2015 07:38

I'm 0.6 and in every day so if I did the insets on the days I'm in work I'd have to do all of them! I pick 3 and do those, and have days off on the other 2.

goldenlilliesdaffodillies · 17/09/2015 07:56

Unfortunately I have to go in for all of even though I am contracted for less than 2 days. We don't get paid extra and half the courses are not relevant to my subject area. However this is a private school.

It is really annoying!

BrianButterfield · 17/09/2015 08:03

They cannot make you work on a day you are not contracted to work (think about it - you might have another job on those days!) However you can be asked to make the time up elsewhere. We are having regular disaggregated training on a Monday after work - however as I do not work on Monday I cannot be required to attend. Having said that, I am getting the benefit of the disaggregation as one of the disaggregated days is a Tuesday, which I do work. Therefore I have to make up a day's worth of training hours. Luckily I am being trusted to put the time in myself (which obviously isn't difficult to do over a few weeks). I could also choose to attend on the Monday sessions, in which case I would get paid for those hours.

leftyloosy · 17/09/2015 08:18

I only went to the ones that fell on my work days. It meant that one year I missed all the whole inset days as they were on Thursdays.

Foxyloxy1plus1 · 17/09/2015 08:53

if you attend training days on a non working day, surely you should be paid for that? Otherwise, you are working for free! It might be in your interests to attend the days, but it should not disadvantage you.

When I was part time, my HT would either offer a day in lieu or payment for additional days.

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2015 15:40

You aren't working for free, teachers don't work '3 days a week' they work '0.6 of a full time contract'.

As a full time contract involved being paid for 5 training days, if you are 0.6 you are being paid for 3 training days. If you don't attend 3 training days because they are on non-working days then you should lose pay, not be paid extra for attending on non-working days.

Littlefish · 17/09/2015 16:20

Noblegiraffe - that's a much better explanation than mine.

BrianButterfield · 17/09/2015 17:16

But if you attend 4 training days, you should be paid for the fourth one.

Original poster

lurkinginthenorth · 17/09/2015 21:23

Wow! Thanks!

I did suspect that I should only be cotnracted for 3 TT Days as I too worked on the theory that 5 day working week = 5 training days so 1 training day for every 'day' you work.

I am eager to find out what my contract will say.

I am right in assuming that every school is different? if so, how would I challenge it?

I am happy to do 3 training days (they always fall on a Monday or Tuesday) but I don't think I should do them all as not full time.

OP posts:

negrilbaby · 17/09/2015 21:40

It's usful to remember that training days were originally taken off a teacher's holidays (Baker Days) - so yes you were expected to attend on non-working days.
If you work 0.6 you have to attend 3 training days. In my school I have a choice which days I attend so I usually do the first two in September and then choose the other one later on.

LindyHemming · 17/09/2015 21:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PickledPants · 19/09/2015 11:39

Recently asked Union area rep about this - they said if "it's not on your day, you don't attend". Same for staff meetings (unless you negotiate pay - but that's up to the HT). Nothing about pro-rata or the paid days that are accrued over the year - a school with jobshares should share out the INSET days / staff meetings so they alternate and fit with the different days staff work e.g. some at the start of the week, some at the end.

Littlefish · 19/09/2015 11:59

Pickled - did they say anything about having to pay back any "unworked" training days? If you've already been paid for them but then don't attend, the school could, in theory, as for the money back.

noblegiraffe · 19/09/2015 12:00

A blanket 'if it's not your day you don't attend' is however not taking into account the nuances of part time working.

As I said before, I'm 0.6 and have to be in every day. Other part time teachers in the school have days off. It would be exceptionally unfair on me if they were let off their INSET allocation because they have a nicer timetable; I would be effectively paid less than them for the same contracted hours.

tethersend · 19/09/2015 12:28

NUT info- only applies to those employed under STPC (The Burgundy Book) though.

Original poster

lurkinginthenorth · 19/09/2015 17:27

But is the union advice something that is legal? I mean, it certainly would be if it was in the burgundy book but just because a union says so, doesn't mean it is legit does it?
I have already used the union in the recent past, much to the annoyance of my HT and feel that another involvement may just make things worse!

OP posts:

HannahHobbins · 19/09/2015 17:30

When I was PT I was laid on days that I wasn't supposed to be working after I had done the three I was obliged to do so ended up being a couple of days a year as I had Monday's off.

HannahHobbins · 19/09/2015 17:30

paid

tethersend · 19/09/2015 18:04

STPCD (Burgundy book) states:

52.25 Subject to paragraph 52.26, no teacher employed part-time may be required to be available for work on any day of the week or part of any day of the week on which the teacher is not normally required to be available for work under their contract of employment (whether it is for the purposes of teaching pupils and performing other duties or for the sole purpose of performing other duties).

52.26 Subject to paragraphs 52.22 and 52.27, a part-time teacher may be required to carry out duties, other than teaching pupils, outside school sessions on any day on which the teacher is normally required to be available for work (whether the teacher is normally required to be available for work for the whole of that day or for only part of that day).

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