Gove telling schools to stagger holidays - mismatch with teaching parents

[zummurzet]

Had a consultation letter home from my children's primary school (an academy) about suggested changes to their school holiday pattern, now that the government are encouraging this.

Obviously I was aware of the idea, but until now it hadn't occurred to me what a nightmare this could mean for me and my family. The school are suggesting changing the date of the October half term, the February half term, and cutting Easter break to one week, then having a later 2 week Whitsun break once SATS are over, followed by a short second half of the Summer term, mainly concentrating on transition into the next year group.

I can see the sense of this in terms of making learning time more effective (especially getting rid of the short, packed first half of the Summer term) and I can see that for many people the idea is a good one, in terms of being able to book cheaper holidays, out of the traditional high cost periods, so imagine that it'll be popular. But as a full time teacher in a different school in the same LEA, it's suddenly occurred to me that I may well be facing a lot of my holidays not matching with my kids, which is honestly a nightmare scenario, and may well be the nail in the coffin of my teaching career. I love teaching and have never done anything else, but realistically one of major advantages is that I have the holidays off with my children. And I'd have thought that would be the same for the many thousands of teachers who are parents. My situation is complicated by having a DH in a job where he often has to take block leave that matches traditional school holidays, so he won't be able to help with childcare and we'd be looking at the two of us on holiday, but not the kids, then the kids on holiday but not us. Arghh.

Has anyone else faced this situation yet? What are your schools thinking of doing?

I'm not a teacher but this is already the case for us October February and Easter holidays are different for dd and dss we live a county apart from our school holidays always fall a week earlier than dss holidays and it is a pain but it's something we have work with to cover child care for both. It means the only time we can book a family holiday is the summer holiday as it's the only time their both off at the same time.

Another Teaching Assistant here. It would not be worth me or many of my colleagues working in a job we love and are good at if schools had different holidays. I don't get to choose my holiday. I am paid 4 weeks holiday and my pay is spread thought the year.
It's not just me but lunchtime staff, office staff, librarians and ELSAs too. All women, as most of these "lesser" yet important roles are often held by.

Back off of teachers for goodness sake. They are doing their best in a bloody horrible climate of control and over politicisation. My dh is a teacher and I am watching him slowly being ground into the dirt because of failings higher up. We are trapped. That he gets to spend time with HIS children who don't call him a fucking cunt, and needing to pay the mortgage is what is keeping him going in the hope that he will come out of this period too.

There are signs outside of surgeries and hospitals and shops and libraries and even the office at school that say aggressive behaviour towards staff will not be tolerated but its ok if a 15 year old girl is like it to her teacher at school.

I think families should be able to take children out for holidays if attendance is ok.
What I want to know is, which politicians have fingers in the pies of holiday companies that they wish to squeeze all family holidays into the holidays? In my opinion, it's got fuck all to do with results.

Well that's my little rant for today.

Lots of support staff are far from full time, TAs who only do mornings, lunch staff, cooks, admin staff in small primaries.

Paying for a whole day at holiday club is going to cost more than they are paid.

surely the idea of changing the holidays is to provide better education for the children. This is not about teachers...it's about the children. Most working people manage with childcare and pay for it. So will the teachers please stop thinking that their needs come first. They say they go on strike to protect the kids' education ....well this should improve that system. Stop moaning

Yep - who cares if over 40%of teachers leave within 5 years citing workload as the main reason and that it's clear from this thread more will follow - the system will be loads better. Does it really matter if there are no teachers to teach?

Threads like this really get me down. Teachers are so undervalued it's ridiculous.

I want happy, motivated people with experience and training who care about children and care about their subject teaching my children. If I wanted unqualified people who stay in the job a couple of years before realising it's actually hard work and throwing in the towel to be replaced by more of the same then I would be Gove's biggest fan. Because that is what will happen if things keep going the way they are.

How, pray tell, will it improve children's education 2little? Is that not what teachers want too? Teachers don't just object to changes for the sake of it any more than anyone else. But it's starting to feel like changes are being made just to break teachers just a little bit more. Do you really think pissing about with holiday dates makes any difference to results?

Read the thread 2little. Teachers are human. Teachers are parents. Many teachers will not teach any more if their working conditions change. It's like any other job, you judge if it works for you by looking at pros and cons. And the cons are stacking up.

surely the idea of changing the holidays is to provide better education for the children.

That isn't what this is about at all. Even Gove has said it's to allow parents to avoid paying inflated holiday prices-which won't work anyway as the holiday companies will just put the prices up for all the weeks schools are off. I don't think anyone has mentioned it leading to a better education?

How will changing the holidays mean 'better education for the children'?

sonlypuppyfat seems to think "most people" only get four weeks'holiday in a 'whole year'. Funny that. The UK holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks including bank holidays.

If more schools go in for staggered holidays this will be difficult both for teachers and for families with children in different schools. I suspect Gove will soon be planning to reduce teacher holidays much further as he dismantles pay and conditions completely.

I agree, sooty.

I also think that Gove is trying to use the teachers' line of 'school isn't childcare' against teachers themselves...

Nightmare for families with children in different schools, nightmare for teachers married to other teachers in different schools, double whammy nightmare for to teacher / 3 child family potentially ion 5 different schools. Hey, lets make sure that families can't function at all!

Whit half term is already a peak holiday cost time and will be even more so if it becomes a possibility for a main summer holiday.

Whit half term is already a peak holiday cost time and will be even more so if it becomes a possibility for a main summer holiday.

I agree-if this is made a 2 week break-even if it's the week before in some areas and the week after in others, then the price will just be high for all possibilities. I think people are naive to think they won't be.

I want Goblin to cover my lessons next time I'm out. I have never had work marked by a supply teacher.
Agree it will be a nightmare for everyone - parents will end up with more weeks to cover than they do now if they have DCs in different schools.

Cynical me thinks, is this a ploy to try and drive out some of the mothers? Teaching seems to be becoming more and more deskilled; the work force is getting younger and cheaper (some will never ascend a pay scale due to performance related pay and get very tired of doing the job for a 20k salary). I've heard of 'culls' of more expensive staff. Many standard job ads don't even ask for UPS staff.

I am genuinely scared for the future of education in this country.

Whilst many might think it is an unreasonable gripe from teachers, it is another thing in a long, long list of things that will give morale a further beating. With low morale comes people simply giving up on the job. We do not want schools staffed only by teachers in the first year or two of their career; we need a balance. We need experience too.

Reorganising the holidays is probably sensible - but there is no reason that these can't be in sync across UK schools.

I will be honest, I have a very good degree and a distinction at MA. I became a teacher so that I could be a parent in the holidays - it gives me balance. I could earn more in another profession and if the holidays do go out of sync with my children, I will be saving and retraining. I already give my job 70+ hours a week at the cost of my family during term time (And I'm doing 3 days this week for revision even though it is our holiday now, along with the prep and planning). If I can't have the holidays with my children, then I will be chasing the money in a different field. Education will no longer be worth it for me and I say that as somebody who is both very good at their job and who loves teaching.

As already stated, this is exactly the sort of issue parents who work in non educational jobs deal with all the time and for less money, so deal with it.

It will be good for teachers to experience the same issues most other families have to deal with every time teachers strike.

the problem will not be resolved by changing holidays...

Grove needs to cut out the mass of paperwork, instead of mountains of pointless paperwork to prove what the teachers are doing, stop believing that school is a factory where all children are going to develop at the same speed time and way...

I have always thought the great thing about having different teachers is they all have different passions and desires to share with the children.

All I see is a lot of demotivated teachers who I would like to see there passion back rather than a load of staff fed up with grove and ofsted

Brilliant insight there JJsleeping. Yeah just deal with the fact that your children will be taught by unqualified staff or inexperienced ones. Or if you are lucky experienced supply who don't know your child's needs. I don't have the luxury of choosing when to take time off, or of grandparents willing to help out. I'll leave 20 years of giving my best for other people's children in a heartbeat if the hols where I give my own DC my attention that they really crave during term time is taken away.
Be flippant and uniformed if you want, ignore the bigger picture the OP is trying to discuss, but don't moan when there aren't enough GOOD teachers for your own.

UN informed obviously, not uniformed!

JJsleeping it is different for teachers.

Take the scenario that your children's school changes the summer holiday and has a summer break from mid June to late July. What do you do? Arrange your holiday at the same time as theirs, so you can all fly off into the sun together.

Let's imagine that a teacher's children have the same holiday period from mid June to late July, and their mother has a holiday from late July to early September, with a couple of days' overlap. S/he can't arrange to have an earlier holiday because she is contracted to teach until late July.
When do you suggest they fly into the sun on their well-deserved break?

This isn't about childcare on the odd strike day.

I genuinely have no idea why this has become an issue. There seems to be more reasons to keep things than change them...if it ain't broke???!! Ok, so it must be about holiday prices? Well, holiday companies will do whatever the hell they like. They must be rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of squeezing even more money from the nation by simply raising the prices across the board. But it can't simply be about that, surely?

OK, so it must be about the kids....well, I loved my summer hols. I learned how to ride my bike, entertain myself, socialise with friends and well, y'know, have a childhood. The window for children to be children seems to be getting smaller and smaller.

Hmm, ok, so better for parents then? I'm a parent. And a teacher and can say that this would be an absolute fur-lined, ocean-going fuck up should every school be able to 'choose' holidays. And my non-teacher friends with children at different schools will be screwed twice over. Any leave they do have will be covering for various children's hols even more than it is already.

Ah, so it must be better for teachers? Yep, I am a teacher. It is my second profession. I love it. I am good at it. But the balance is tipping way over into reasons I should leave rather than stay. I spend far longer stressing and putting my all into other people's kids than my own. And yet less than half my time is spent with them...the majority is planning (useful), assessment (often useful) and paperwork (mostly utterly pointless).

The payoff is that I spend 6 glorious weeks with my own children. If that is eroded, I, like many others, will simply leave. And I say that not as a threat to Gove (who probably gives not one tiny shit) but with a very heavy heart.

Gove is very, very smart....get the 'little people' arguing, mudslinging and blaming one another while you do whatever the hell you like. Is there not a huge irony that he wants state education to be more like private education (oh, you mean the private education that has vastly longer holidays than the public sector??!*)

*Yes, I am aware of how hard teachers work in Ind. schools. Just making a point about holidays!!!!

See the anti-teacher brigade is out in force.

This doesn't only effect teachers, imagine having two DCs in different schools with different holidays.

If the changes even materialise I think they will be county wide rather than by school.

It won't make holidays cheaper, the companies will charge more for any holiday weeks.

I just dont get why teachers think they are a 'special' case. Surely a school with the right to choose when holidays are will attract teachers that like those dates. If a teacher doesn't like the dates they can move job just like everyone else in work does.

Some people should just be grateful that they can afford 2 weeks in the sun because a LOT of us can not even afford it, as don't get paid as much as teachers.