Gove telling schools to stagger holidays - mismatch with teaching parents

[zummurzet]

Had a consultation letter home from my children's primary school (an academy) about suggested changes to their school holiday pattern, now that the government are encouraging this.

Obviously I was aware of the idea, but until now it hadn't occurred to me what a nightmare this could mean for me and my family. The school are suggesting changing the date of the October half term, the February half term, and cutting Easter break to one week, then having a later 2 week Whitsun break once SATS are over, followed by a short second half of the Summer term, mainly concentrating on transition into the next year group.

I can see the sense of this in terms of making learning time more effective (especially getting rid of the short, packed first half of the Summer term) and I can see that for many people the idea is a good one, in terms of being able to book cheaper holidays, out of the traditional high cost periods, so imagine that it'll be popular. But as a full time teacher in a different school in the same LEA, it's suddenly occurred to me that I may well be facing a lot of my holidays not matching with my kids, which is honestly a nightmare scenario, and may well be the nail in the coffin of my teaching career. I love teaching and have never done anything else, but realistically one of major advantages is that I have the holidays off with my children. And I'd have thought that would be the same for the many thousands of teachers who are parents. My situation is complicated by having a DH in a job where he often has to take block leave that matches traditional school holidays, so he won't be able to help with childcare and we'd be looking at the two of us on holiday, but not the kids, then the kids on holiday but not us. Arghh.

Has anyone else faced this situation yet? What are your schools thinking of doing?

Clam?! Supply teachers do mark books (during lunch time or after school), but they certainly don't take them home with them - surely your should know this!!

I am another one to have left for supply teaching and incredibly glad that I did!

Clam, I don't understand what point you are making.
I said I didn't take marking home. You assumed I didn't mark work.
I can teach in 5 different schools in a week, in a 25 mile radius from base.
WTF am I supposed to do with marking if I take it home?

I've just remembered another thing I like about supply, you don't have to deal with arsey colleagues week after week, year on year.

CurlyhairedAssassin I work 25 hours a week over 39 weeks as office admin in a city school. DCs attend 2 different county schools in 2 different towns. DP has fixed holidays - 7 shift patterns on and 2 weeks off.

There is no way I could pay child care out of my low wage. I'm only working in a school so I can spend time with the DCs during their holidays. I would need a full time job if holidays don't match so the extra could cover child care costs.

Most of the support staff i work with are in similar positions.

And I've just remembered why my school won't use agency supply.

Because we mark work, leave classrooms tidy and either come prepared and with resources, or teach from whatever the school considers adequate planning? I still don't understand why you are cross because I don't take marking home, your frothing is illogical.

I'm having a chuckle at the thought of only doing the job because of the holidays.
I'd be seriously considering leaving if the holidays get mucked about with.

Goblinchild, I am seriously considering Supply come September. I have only ever had experience of lovely Supply teachers, and my last stint I did it was one I enjoyed. My last supply was making as much as me doing less days. And seeing her own children!

I agree that the demand for supply is only going to rise. Especially good Supply. 4 Vacancies in my current contract school from the last notice date, probably another 2 expected in May.

Do you live in an urban or rural area, do you mind my asking? I was in London my last stint as Supply, but I live rurally now, so i'm guessing i'd need to travel a lot more, which might not work out economic.

There is a difference for those people working in schools and those working outside of schools. School staff have no flexibility over their holidays at all. Those working outside of schools do usually have some flexibility and there are many, in my experience anyway, that can choose most, if not all, of their holidays - maybe with a little compromise between other employees.

How it will affect every working parent though:

At present holiday clubs are geared up for the usual state school holidays - for their own LEA areas. Round here there are various agencies and companies, including the authority itself, which offer holiday childcare out of term time. If a school chooses to have different holidays to others, well agencies wont have clubs available so there won't be additional childcare available. Unless a number of schools choose the same dates it wouldn't be worth their while - they need the numbers to break even.

Round here even the independent schools match their holidays to the state school terms. Yes, the have 3 weeks additional holidays, but the rest al match. This is for a number of reasons - but the above two are included in the reasons given.

We use a range of supply at times - some long term, some short or even one/half day.

All of them mark work covered that day.
The short term supply never take work home to mark. They wouldn't be advised to either. The main class teachers generally prefer that other staff don't take their class books home so that they know where they are and so they can access them as they require.

Longer term supply is different and they, ime, work as a normal member of our staff team - so yes, taking work home to mark, etc.

But then - does it matter where and when books are marked, so long as it is marked properly and regularly, using the school's preferred methods. Many teachers will choose to stay late to mark or come in early, rather than carrying work home each night.

As a permanent teacher, my experience of Supply has been exactly as Goblinchild states. If you're doing long term supply, then yes you may take work home, but certainly not for teachers who are only employed by the school for one day.

But getting back to the original question. The reason why I would leave teaching if they do this is because I work really long hours term time, but feel I make that up by having most of the holidays with my children. My holidays are already 1-2 weeks out of sync with my children. If I lost the holidays with my children, it's not so much a perk being lost, but rather my work / life balance being completely out of kilter. Therefore, I'd leave teaching and find a 9-5 job which gave me my evenings and weekends with the children.

And according to my annual appraisals, I'm a pretty good teacher too. I love teaching, but I love my family more.

I did supply for a term last year, after leaving a teaching job that had become completely untenable. I loved supply teaching. I earned less, as my agency paid a standard daily rate which didn't match my UPS salary, but for me it was a breathe of fresh air. I could have worked full time if I'd wanted as the demand was there, but I could pick and choose to suit me. And after the first week I never had a morning call, it was all pre-booked on days I'd agreed before hand, so I knew when I was working. I very quickly got regular work in a number of schools which I liked, and at the end of the term was offered no less than 5 full time contracts with schools who knew me and needed full time cover for various reasons.

After 20 years of teaching I was missing the continuity of having one class, the relationships you build with children, the progress you see and the team spirit of being part of a staff, so I accepted one of the full time contracts, and within a term the contract became a permanent one, which is where I am now. But I do often think back to that supply time. Having free evenings and weekends was soooo fantastic. It was like being a different person. And no, Clam, I never took marking home. I did it all by the end of the day, and left it there, every day, as every day-to-day supply teacher I've ever met did.

So the whole holiday thing has made me think. I will be filling out the 'consultation' form for my children's school, and will be very clear about what a change to holidays would mean for me and my family, then wait to see what they decide. Who knows.

'But I do often think back to that supply time. Having free evenings and weekends was soooo fantastic. It was like being a different person.'

Yes, after nearly 30 years in permanent contracts, it is incredibly freeing.
I refuse to do more than a fortnight in any school, however lovely.

You never know, it might increase the quality of teaching staff available because those that choose teaching might do so because they want to teach, not just because the holidays are attractive.

I'm still gobsmacked by this comment actually. Do people think that by worsening the conditions for school staff, better people will suddenly be enticed into the job?!

I think a lot of people assume that teachers drift into the job because they don't know what else to do, because it's child-friendly with short hours, long holidays and you don't have to be very clever to do a primary teacher's role.
They may be wrong, but there are a lot of them that think we'd crumple and burn in 'a real job'

You never know, it might increase the quality of teaching staff available because those that choose teaching might do so because they want to teach, not just because the holidays are attractive.

I teach for the holidays. I am a damned good teacher and quite frankly I think your children will flourish under me. I have some of the best results in my school, I am constantly graded outstanding and I would be happy for a teacher like myself to teach my own children. During term time I work at least 75 hours a week. I do that because I have the whole of my holidays to enjoy with my own children.

I think a lot of people assume that teachers drift into the job because they don't know what else to do, because it's child-friendly with short hours, long holidays and you don't have to be very clever to do a primary teacher's role.

I drifted into teaching for similar reasons. I am here a decade later. Will I teach forever, probably not . Not because I find the job difficult but because I don't need to work. I also now have 5 children plus a stepson and would like more. I would like to teach part time, but senior part time positions are rare.

If they took the holidays then teachers would leave.ainly because the holidays provide a good time to get caught up on bigger work, such as coursework marking or moderation and such. The holidays often present a time you can focus your energies onto the big things so that the term is easier. I work most of my holidays to be honest, I'm a good teacher and I work hard. I probably spend half the hols working and the other half seeing the people I can't see as often during term time; such as my family. They all live an hour and a bit away but I just don't have the time in term hours.

The holidays are seen as a perk, but they often get worked in just as much as term time.

Awww, dunna argue, clam and goblinchild - you are two of my favourite ever posters and you are both on the same page really, from previous posts.

I'm too busy being euphoric to argue, especially over something I don't understand.

Peace and love etc plus wine/gin

"I'm confused as to why clam thinks supply teachers should be taking work home to mark"
Probably because I didn't say that? Of course they can't, if they're not returning to the premises the following day.
I interpreted goblin's comment as something I've heard many times over the years from supply teachers, that they love the role as "there's no marking." And, not so much recently, but years ago, many supplies would leave work un-marked, and class teachers would return from courses/illness and have to do it all themselves. Now it's part and parcel of the expectations set by most schools.
Anyway, it appears that I missed the "taking home" part of her post, and that the books are marked on the school premises. Although I'm not sure I see why that's a bonus of supply teaching, when many contracted teachers do the same thing. I couldn't tell you the last time I took a pile of books home (other than for a more time-consuming levelling task which would require hours over a weekend), as I prefer to do it at lunchtime or straight after school too.

Hi feenie. Missed your offer of gin there.
Cheers!
And OK, I'll admit, I missed off a "sorry" to goblin there.