Gove telling schools to stagger holidays - mismatch with teaching parents

[zummurzet]

Had a consultation letter home from my children's primary school (an academy) about suggested changes to their school holiday pattern, now that the government are encouraging this.

Obviously I was aware of the idea, but until now it hadn't occurred to me what a nightmare this could mean for me and my family. The school are suggesting changing the date of the October half term, the February half term, and cutting Easter break to one week, then having a later 2 week Whitsun break once SATS are over, followed by a short second half of the Summer term, mainly concentrating on transition into the next year group.

I can see the sense of this in terms of making learning time more effective (especially getting rid of the short, packed first half of the Summer term) and I can see that for many people the idea is a good one, in terms of being able to book cheaper holidays, out of the traditional high cost periods, so imagine that it'll be popular. But as a full time teacher in a different school in the same LEA, it's suddenly occurred to me that I may well be facing a lot of my holidays not matching with my kids, which is honestly a nightmare scenario, and may well be the nail in the coffin of my teaching career. I love teaching and have never done anything else, but realistically one of major advantages is that I have the holidays off with my children. And I'd have thought that would be the same for the many thousands of teachers who are parents. My situation is complicated by having a DH in a job where he often has to take block leave that matches traditional school holidays, so he won't be able to help with childcare and we'd be looking at the two of us on holiday, but not the kids, then the kids on holiday but not us. Arghh.

Has anyone else faced this situation yet? What are your schools thinking of doing?

Although workers in other professions are free to take time when they want.

God I wish. We are lucky if we get one half term a year because we can't all have half terms off. We can only get a maximum 2 week block at a time once a year. All other leave has to be a maximum 1 week block. Christmas and Easter are done on a lottery. This is in a department in the NHS because there isn't a surplus of staff to cater for us all wanting holiday at the same time. As a part timer I was entitled to 19 days leave last year. I only managed to take 12 days of it. And therefore have to carry 7 days over. Meaning I'll have 26 days this year and I'm only likely to be able to take half of it. There is a slim chance I might be able to sell it back, but that is not yet confirmed. But we are all in this situation in my department. Trust me people outside of the teaching sector cannot take leave when they want.

And therefore if you leave teaching you're going to have to deal with leave issue just like everyone else.

Trust me people outside of the teaching sector cannot take leave when they want

Many can.

In what other career would anyone expect a worsening of working conditions to improve the calibre and performance of employees?

Plus the fact that working in schools gets the same holidays as DC means there's a but more competition to offer term-time roles. This makes life harder for all parents

Not a teacher.

Funny enough most people only get four weeks in a whole year.

Plus bank holiday.

And pre-DS I worked in a company that allowed you to "buy" up to 9 weeks (or sell down to 4). One of the reasons they introduced that was because they were losing staff to retrain as teachers so that they could spend some time with their DC.

The better the pay and perks, the better-qualified and experienced staff you'll draw in, otherwise they'll go and work elsewhere. And if there are other employment opportunities with better perks then there is pressure on employers who struggle to get appropriate staff to offer similar perks.

Don't you know op? Teachers aren't allowed to moan about anything because they have it so easy. Fact.

I actually think that it is a bit off to organise children's education around the convenience of teachers. On the other hand, I bet the teachers who aren't parents are loving the idea. They can finally have a chance at a holiday without paying silly prices and everywhere being overrun by kids. My DF gladly forwent the extra holiday for flexibility when he left teaching.

I think it will be mostly a shame for the kids if their friends, siblings, family, step- siblings have different holidays.

We have this a bit because DH works in a different county to dc. It's a bit rubbish.

I'm watching this thread with interest, as I am career changing into teaching after 15 years in industry. One of the drivers for this is because I haven't been able to get a decent balance between work and my family.

Yes, I enjoy being in schools, working with children and making a positive impact on their lives. From the limited experience I've had so far, I have found it very rewarding. But I also want to spend more time with my children, and am willing to take the pay cut for it, to move into teaching.

If the situation turned out that I was still not getting a decent amount of time with the family, I would consider a return to industry.

Zhx3 - many many teachers are currently desperate to leave teaching because they don't get enough time with their families.
I would be the first to agree that having long holidays is a perk of being a teacher. One perk. But you'd have to be a bloody idiot to go into teaching for that one reason. And it's frankly ridiculous to suggest that more than a crazy few would. And those crazy few would not last long in the profession if that were their attitude.
I think there will soon be a massive teacher shortage. Mucking about with the school holidays will make that worse. I am not suggesting that teachers' feelings about the school holidays should in any way trump the feelings of other parents - merely that if teaching carries on becoming a less and less attractive job, then it will attract fewer, and less good, candidates. Not better candidates (as someone mystifyingly suggested upthread).

There's already a massive shortage of teachers in certain subjects, they throw money at you to train in those subjects, especially in maths and physics.

Can't see this improving that situation.

One of the things I enjoy about supply teaching is the flexibility, along with all the other things that I no longer have to worry about such as attainment over a year, or OFSTED, or the constant curriculum changes.
I do my very best for the day, or the week that I'm teaching in a school. The children have a day that is well-paced, educational and usually interesting. Sometimes I do my own thing, soimetimes I am asked to follow the school plans. I do either with equal ease, I have a lot of experience and can cover the primary curriculum from YR to Y6.
But parents of the lovely children I teach, I can cover 5 or more schools in a week, build no relationships, do not worry about meeting the needs of the individual other than on an hourly basis. My marking is generic. By the next week, I will barely remember the children from the week before.
Do you want children taught on a regular basis by itinerant staff like me?
For years?

This system would benefit me hugely, BTW. Lots more work available during currently empty weeks.

think there will soon be a massive teacher shortage. Mucking about with the school holidays will make that worse. I am not suggesting that teachers' feelings about the school holidays should in any way trump the feelings of other parents - merely that if teaching carries on becoming a less and less attractive job, then it will attract fewer, and less good, candidates. Not better candidates (as someone mystifyingly suggested upthread).

I completely agree!

This has the potential to prevent any 'whole family' holidays at all in our house due to step-children, physical distance and non negotiable holidays for DH

I'd like to point out to the people who think teachers are rolling in it, that they start at just over 21K pa, after 4 years training. Or 3 and a PGCE. Pretty poo. They then go up a bit each year. HOWEVER: now there is no obligation by schools to pay at a set rate or band, many teachers who move schools can be moved down , if teachers take a break they can be moved down the pay scale, if they move from or to an academy they can be moved down, if they are on PRP they can be moved down. I am currently paid less than my friend, who is a factory worker in the same town, for the same hour week. My hourly rate works out at 8 quid an hour. Hers is more, for less hours.

I'm already verging on leaving anyway, if they do this it'll be the final nail. I simply can't afford childcare in the holidays as well as termtime, not to mention the fact that i'd never see my own kids.

Lots of opposing opinions.

I posted in 'staffroom' as I was interested to see if other teachers would face similar dilemmas to me. There isn't a right or wrong, just people making life and career decisions based on their own personal circumstances. For me, childcare and loss of family time would be an issue. For me, the loss of earnings wouldn't be so much of an issue as DH earns a decent salary. I could, and would take a considerable wage cut if it meant my family continued to have quality time together. And as a teacher with different holidays to my kids, we wouldn't. As a parent, any working parent, you balance your working life with your available childcare, and your financial position, and this can vary enormously depending on individual situations. I teach. I taught for 10 years before having children, and I have continued to teach for the next 10 years because I love it, it's my career, I'm good at it and it suits my particular set of circumstances. I don't live near any family, have no parents alive anyway, nor does my husband, and we have moved location often because of his work, so some decisions around me working have definitely been based on childcare, and it's been a happy coincidence that teaching has meant this isn't a problem. To suggest that that in some way makes me a less committed or desirable teacher is ludicrous. It's the way all families make work decisions.

DH suggested, when we discussed it last night, that rather than me leave teaching, we could consider moving house to be near a school for our children that had the same holidays as the one I teach in. That's a possible solution, for my family. I could also consider supply teaching. There's tons available where I live, in fact my school regularly can't get supply teachers as there are none available. I'm not sure. That's a possible solution.

I imagined that there were a great many experienced, female teachers with school aged children on mumsnet in similar circumstances to me, and wanted to know their thoughts. So thank you!

I agree that where I am, there is a lot of supply if you can just be ready to go at very short notice. Some mornings I'm taking the first of a couple of calls, or turning down work because I'm already booked.
No marking to take home at the end of the day either, and no weekends of planning. You get a lot of decent family, or me time.

"No marking to take home at the end of the day either"

Why on earth not? I'm afraid you wouldn't be invited back to my school if you left behind work un-marked.

I work so hard in term time (and for a bulk of the holidays). I leave in the morning before my kids are up (DH gets them up and to school) and I get home after tea. I have about an hour with the kids if I'm lucky, unless it's staff meeting night, parent's evening, I have assessment to do, data entry week, displays need doing etc. etc.

Then once the kids are in bed I finish my marking and planning for the next day. If a book is seen to be unmarked before the next session I'm in trouble so there's no chance of leaving any of it for another time.

I have no social life in term time and never see family. I also work most of Sunday. The workload is just getting impossible to manage.

If I didn't have the holidays with my kids it really would all be for nothing. Like many others, it would be the final nail in the coffin of my teaching career. It's the only thing that keeps me going sometimes and I really do (did?) love teaching so much.

What you have just said makes a lot of sense and you have my sympathies, despite how my first post came across. (I'm playing devil's advocate for myself as much as anyone else!) Teaching is a very frustrating place to be at the moment. Things are being made difficult for no discernible advantage to anyone other than the politicians. It doesn't take much to tip a teaching job into the unmanageable at the best of times, and then combining that with the needs of your own children impossible.

It's such a shame when good, committed teachers feel like leaving. At least you have some decent options to consider. I wouldn't be surprised if a stand alone primary academy doesn't bother changing- you won't be the only set of parents who will be inconvenienced. It's either some very busy governors with Tory party pretensions, or a couple of teachers who fancy a cheap holiday for once. Can you not write a storming letter that will shoot it down?

Well I'm term-time only support staff. On a low wage FTE to start with (14k) but we do not get paid for any of the holidays. Paid £8 an hour for 32 weeks of the year. Nada the other weeks. The fact that i can look after my kids during the holidays is the ONLY reason I do that job. If I have to then pay out for holiday care for them for different weeks when I'm at work earnig my pittance and getting no respect from half the pupils because I'm not a teacher, while on MY weeks off I'm sat on my arse earning nothing, then this job will not literally not be worth doing anymore.

Teaching assistants and catering staff with children will leave the job in droves. Then what?

Don't be a plonker clam, I mark through my lunchour and after school.
I don't leave unmarked work unless specifically reqyuested to, or an untidy classroom.

I'd be even less popular if I took the books home, I've taught in Brighton twice in two different schools and in Crawley this week, and it's only Wednesday.
How do you suggest I return them?

Absolutely curly. Also, anyone who thinks that they will be getting cheap holidays are mad! A few years ago there was one peak week at half term time, now it is two, so the holiday companies can get you whenever your break is! They won't pass up a chance to raise prices once they twig that staggered breaks are the norm. It's people without school-age children who have been able to take advantage of cheap weeks who I'll feel sorry for!

You managed to be more polite than I would have been goblinchild!

Don't be so bloody rude, goblin.

You think contract teachers don't work through lunch/after school too?