Gove telling schools to stagger holidays - mismatch with teaching parents

[zummurzet]

Had a consultation letter home from my children's primary school (an academy) about suggested changes to their school holiday pattern, now that the government are encouraging this.

Obviously I was aware of the idea, but until now it hadn't occurred to me what a nightmare this could mean for me and my family. The school are suggesting changing the date of the October half term, the February half term, and cutting Easter break to one week, then having a later 2 week Whitsun break once SATS are over, followed by a short second half of the Summer term, mainly concentrating on transition into the next year group.

I can see the sense of this in terms of making learning time more effective (especially getting rid of the short, packed first half of the Summer term) and I can see that for many people the idea is a good one, in terms of being able to book cheaper holidays, out of the traditional high cost periods, so imagine that it'll be popular. But as a full time teacher in a different school in the same LEA, it's suddenly occurred to me that I may well be facing a lot of my holidays not matching with my kids, which is honestly a nightmare scenario, and may well be the nail in the coffin of my teaching career. I love teaching and have never done anything else, but realistically one of major advantages is that I have the holidays off with my children. And I'd have thought that would be the same for the many thousands of teachers who are parents. My situation is complicated by having a DH in a job where he often has to take block leave that matches traditional school holidays, so he won't be able to help with childcare and we'd be looking at the two of us on holiday, but not the kids, then the kids on holiday but not us. Arghh.

Has anyone else faced this situation yet? What are your schools thinking of doing?

One more step towards teaching being a 5 year career, only for the chldless, or sone by supply and multiple job sharing. What abou all those redundant army types we were told would be flooding into schools?
Perhaps it will become a male-heavy profession, if it no longer fits with a family.

Better for the learning of other people's children, perhaps. But parents shouldn't be surprised if teachers want to put their own children first for once.

You'll only be in the situation that most non-teaching working parents are already in. You'll have to utilise family, school holiday clubs etc... Like everyone else.

Sod worrying about the teachers, I think normal kids / families will get a rough deal with this.

We already have the longest working hours in Europe. When do parents (non teachers) get to spend enough quality time with their children? That's precious enough as it is.

I know of several families where they have three children going to different schools - for example one at grammar, one at comp and one at primary / one at state boys, one at state girls and one at primary and one that went to a different secondary because they really didn't want single sex education / one at infants, one at juniors, one at secondary. I also know of children where the second child didn't get into the same school as the eldest.

So in all these scenarios, when are they supposed to have a family holiday and family time? How do working parents split up their rare holidays to look at their own children? They just couldn't do it, which means children's quality time with parents, and with each other will be diminished.

It's awful, awful, awful.

That said if these proposals go through, I'll leave teaching too.

When I was a child my DF taught in one authority my DM in another and we went to school in a third.
Mostly our holidays overlapped but the odd half term with our Nana was great fun and my parents were able to work when we were at school and they weren't meaning less work when we were off together.
We still got plenty of time for family holidays abd had a lot more time together than a lot of families.
So I actually think it would be better, certainly less time working when you could be spending time with your children.

Yes, we mustn't think of schools as child care, but how many outstanding teachers enter or remain in the profession as it fits in with their family life in regard to the holidays? LOTS. My feeling is that this will chase more staff out of the profession and reduce the quality of experienced teachers available to recruit. Yet more reasons to not recommend the profession to young, high calibre graduates who expect be able to have a career and a family life.

The difference between teachers and other working parents is that where other working parents will be allowed to take holiday to be with their children during the school holidays, teachers will not.

TBH I think for all working parents (in education or not) holidays should be a standard time as it will be a logistical nightmare otherwise, especially with children at several different schools.

Would there be holiday clubs? If local schools had different holidays then would a holiday club be a viable business - it may not get enough children.

Maybe it would see more schools having a holiday club/wraparound childcare but that may only be the large schools, not a small village infant/primary.

Btw I do realise that wouldn't be for the whole holiday, just some - it would be great if everyone had more holiday allowance.

I was about to say the same as MichaelFinnigan. I wonder what these "other jobs" are that pay as well as teaching and have all school holidays off, and that teachers have all the skills for? I'd love to know so I can apply!

I think finding childcare for teachers' working hours, will be very difficult. Equally, in some cases you could have children in three different schools: infant, junior, secondary. Imagine if they all had slightly different half term dates!

Then there's holiday club provision. It's only financially viable if there are sufficient children signed up, so if some schools are very different to the others in the timings of their holidays, there may not be any childcare available anyway!

*different from - sleepless night with toddler to blame!

lots of salries are higher than teachers salaries. poster who say your salary is higher than many average peoples are completely off the point. whether teachers salaries are high or low is not the debate! If this did happen teachers would need to have the same rights to take their annual leave when they wanted to ie to cover their children's holidays like many people do. They will also want more money as they are currently not paid for their holidays. Having children in different schools with different holidays will affect all working parents. As usual another poorly thought out half assed idea from Gove.

Although workers in other professions are free to take time when they want I think the majority have to take their leave during school holidays anyway. I know I do

It's possible that if holidays are staggered then although some teachers would lose out, a greater number of working parents who struggle to book time off when their dcs are off, would gain. If you work somewhere with a lot of parents it can be near impossible to book school holidays off. Staggered holidays may make this easier.

I would be pissed off if i were a teacher, it is a huge advantage for teachers but I'm not convinced that teachers will be quitting their jobs for lower paid ones with only 5 weeks holiday. (although they may quit for other Gove related reasons)

As a parent with children who will be in different schools I will hate this. How on earth can you actually go away on hols together if everyone has hols at different time?

It has been said before but not everyone can choose when to take their hols. Teachers are just one of many profession that are tied up. Having different dates for schools in the same area will be a nightmare to juggle. Teachers aren't the only parents who want to spend their holidays with all their children and as a family rather than a parent doing childcare for whatever child who happen to be on hols.
This will also have some impact on the childcare cost. I know we always plan our hols during the dcs hols. So either we have very little hols together as a family (christmas and maybe one week after that) or we need to pay for more childcare (another 3 full 3 weeks) with in A LOT.

And it won't bring the cost of holiday down. Because all the schools will end up doing that, all of them will want less hols at Easter to 'prepare for the SATs' so you will just end up with longer periods when the hols costs more (see what happens in other countries where they do stagger the hols, albeit at a national level)

Also the way that hols are spread in the year should be, as far as I am concerned, in the best interest of the children. Only the Y6 are doing the SATs (Y2 are teachers assessment etc so the pressure/situation is quite different) and moving hols just to be sure that there is more time to get ready for Y6 SATs is . What about all the other children who will be very tired from a longer term wo holidays, esp the younger ones. Is that arrangement really better for their learning???
And 'concentrating on the transition to the next year' only mean to me very little learning to be done. If that's the case, then why on earth are these children still at school? Again I can see that exact situation happening at my dc school. After the SATs the Y6 do little if anything at all so they have in effect effect nearly 2 months of doing little. Does it mean that all the other classes are supposed to do the same and that the school, year is in effect reduced by 1~2months?

Although workers in other professions are free to take time when they want
Well I don't know about you but I know a lot of professions where people aren't able to take their hols whenever they want. I know my DH can't for example and I have a bit more choice but not that much.... So managing to find time off together is always hard. With 3 dcs with different hols, it will be nearly impossible bar maybe a week in the summer.

If it's only that one school that adopt these terms-there won't be any holiday club provisions. Parents who work in schools can take annual leave to deal with it, they can't.

One academy round here has taken on these sort of terms and it's proved very difficult-I know a number of teachers and teaching assistants who won't send their children there despite it being a good school.

When the academy is off but the primary isn't-there are no holiday facilities-no swimming times etc and the cinemas do nothing in the morning-all film times begin from 2pm making it impossible to take the secondary school child there as you've then got to get back to collect younger siblings from primary at 3.15!

The only people there I know it works for are those with available grandparents who have them for a week at a time; if you don't have this option, it would be hard.

People on this thread seem pleased that teachers and LSAs will struggle like them, yet are probably the same people who would rather like quality staff teaching their children. I don't think you can give teachers a 60 hour working week, muck up their holidays so that the one advantage of the job no longer exists, and expect a decent calibre of graduate choosing the job in the future.

Sorry, I mean people who don't work in schools in the first paragraph!

I can remember a point when we had four different sets of school holiday to deal with between the five of us children.

Thank heaven for both my grannies!

All VA schools have always been able to set their own term dates, and when Labour set up academies it gave them the powers to do so too.

Nothing has changed, except the number of academies.

Schools haven't really gone in for using these powers over the years they've had them. The logistics being a pretty compelling reason not to.

So if the school has a consultation, and is told loud and clear it's not wanted, it shouldn't happen. I suppose your a bit stuck if in your area the majority see it differently.

You never know, it might increase the quality of teaching staff available because those that choose teaching might do so because they want to teach, not just because the holidays are attractive.

Where I live there are plenty of unemployed teachers who can't get jobs or who have to travel long distances for work.

I don't want a teacher who is only in it for the perks.

My DCs are at a catholic school and our Easter holidays are different to the rest of the LEAS this year. It isn't proving to be a problem.

All those people saying it's no different from other working parents; well other working parents that I know use some of their annual leave to cover such things. So teachers must also be allowed this, no?

It would, without a doubt, stop me from returning to teaching after this baby is born. It's fine to say, oh suck it up but it's not what teachers signed up for and you can't then be complaining that your school is losing good teachers left right and centre.

I don't know any teacher ever who has chosen teaching due to the 'perks'! It's certainly not a reason to go into teaching as unless you love the job and are commited to it then it will destroy you.

Oh course it's nice to have but it acts more as a retainer once people become parents than it does an incentive.

You never know, it might increase the quality of teaching staff available because those that choose teaching might do so because they want to teach, not just because the holidays are attractive

This board is full of existing teachers desperate to leave-some ridiculously high proportion of teachers leave within 5 years. I really can't see how screwing with the holidays will improve matters?

Obviously it would be super if a load of graduates with firsts suddenly wanted to devote their lives to teaching and weren't interested in being paid because they did it for the love of the children. Realistically, this will obviously never happen!