Do you think Andrew will face any criminal charges?

[LotsInCommon]

I’m only now reading Virginias book and it’s a very difficult read.

It’s 7 months on from Andrews arrest for misconduct in public office. Do you think he will be charged with anything to do with that? Do you think he’ll be charged with sexual abuse and rape?

The fact you are reading his book 7 months after its release and there's still not a whisper about him ever being charged pretty much gives you your answer doesn't it.

@Chocolatethumbprints
My thoughts exactly!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9ly0l028d1go

It strikes me that William reads the room better than KC

I disagree.

I think there are all sorts of problematic scenarios (Earthshot connections and Duchy skims very prominent) that will dog him in much the same way Daddy's problematic connections have him.

William will be King in the not too distant future and he is not going to want the Andrew and Harry sagas to drag on .

There's little he can do apart from invoke parliamentary process to strip titles which C3 appears to be reluctant to do maybe for fear of setting unforeseen precedent|?

Can't see lazy W putting himself too far out all the time the £££ are rolling in.

Yes Andrew is protected.

From Scientology?

"Whilst AMW is a nasty, arrogant piece of scum I do think he is being used to divert attention from hundreds of very wealthy mostly American men who did far worse to those poor girls than he ever did.
VG described sadistic practices from other men, as have some of the other victims."

That. I don't think he'll get done for any of the sexual abuse stuff. One or two token minor players in the Epstein files might get thrown to the dogs, ones who no longer have money or influence and can't implicate any others. The rest will be able to duck and dive and obfuscate and stall and have lawyers filibuster the meaning of the first word of Genesis Chapter 1 Verse 1 of the paperwork for the submission of the proposal of their court case for years, till they have all aged out of it and died. Then some stuff will dribble out here and there- less than the tip of the iceberg- and, like a PP says, it'll be all "how awful we didn't know" whilst even as I'm writing this , powerful rich famous men are still raping girls and women (and wee boys no doubt) with their mates and probably barely took a check at all.

It's hard to know who to choose from between Andrew and Thames Valley Police, I mean it's just accepted that the police are corrupt in this country when push comes to shove - I don't say in every instance. The police are about control and protecting the State at the expense of the general public. Plus, aren't they a bunch of freemasons? I don't know if Thames Valley are anything much like the Met which produce a succession of toxic stories virtually every week, but yes it does occur to me that a) Andrew was made un Royal so he could take legal action; as a rule royalty doesn't do that and b) The police were tipped off to do a very public arrest to 'lance the boil' and let him off the hook one way or another.

There's another thread about the risk of Scientology to the Royal Family and its influence on William. Scare stories about scientology have long been the rage - there was. a double page spread in the Times recently - and I don't like scientologists but really are you kidding me, there is nothing on that organisation as bad as what the British State has done in terms of its long-running deep seated toxic scandals over recent decades, be it the Post Office scandal, the Birmingham Six, Hillsborough, the Contaminated Blood scandal and so on.

If people don't believe the State killed Diana - and oddly I don't really care that much either way - it's only because they can't quite see how they would have gotten away with it/it's too far fetched the way they went about it, and not because they don't think they would have morally have baulked at it. It wouldn't be a case of Charles or Philip deciding either, to a large extent they are puppets in the game; merely the celebrity arm of the British state.

I doubt Andrew was even questioned at the police station. I think he was taken to a lounge area where he was given a cup of tea and then taken home again but I am v cynical about the workings of the RF.

Of all the hills to die on defending by proxy AMW is a strange one to choose. Maybe he's the victim here not Virginia Guiffre who committed suicide and he was photographed with and who was paid the best part of £12 million by the Royal Family to keep quiet much of that paid by QE2.

I’m reading Andrew Lownie’s book Entitled right now - it’s such an eye opener. It seems he was using his position as trade envoy to play golf wherever he liked at the expense of us tax payers. I hope they prosecute him for something!

@Cielovista The golf is the least of it but yes that book is relentless - the sheer greed !

The Windsors are protecting Andrew and will
continue to do so .
Charles is paying for everything. And now we are expected to believe that ‘Charles won’t pay for legal advice’
How exactly will that be policed ( pun not intended) ?

As far as I am concerned if their lips are moving the Windsors are lying .
I’ve read that Andrew’s case may be related to the ownership of whatever palace was searched .
So the system is working as it was planned to —this obfuscation is exactly how the Windsors get away with not paying tax , with not allowing normal scrutiny of their finances , with being above the law .

The entire Epstein link to the Windsors needs proper attention. There is more there . Has William’s PR - sorry William’s charity- returned the 1 million donation from the long term associate of Epstein ? Yes I know the charity commission said nothing to see here but it was a tick box exercise in my opinion

Morally and ethically the right thing to do is return the money. Replace it out of your own pocket William .

This.

However much you believe what Virginia has to say, she is one person. And obviously cannot be asked to appear in court as a witness. There is also the whole thing that trafficking was not a crime at the time in the UK, she was over the age of consent here. So however distasteful, having sex with a 17 or 18 year old was not a crime. She did not complain at the time. The other "witnesses" to it were Epstein (dead) and Maxwell (not talking). So there is no way the CPS would have enough evidence to bring it to trial. His status as an ex-member of the royals is irrelevant, it would be the same if it was Dave from down the pub.

Misconduct in a public office is completely different. If it can be proven that he broke the Official Secrets Act or tipped off mates about deals or negotiations then that is easier to prove with statements from people who are still alive, living in the UK and willing to come to court, or with correspondence, emails etc.

Whether C is fronting up the cash or it's coming from some secret offshore MW stash is a bit of a moot point really.

The Windsors have plundered the nation for decades and continue to do so.

We're paying.

First of all I cannot stand the man but where are all the prosecutions of all the others ?

@Soozikinzii

Andrew has not been prosecuted either .

Misconduct in a public office is completely different. If it can be proven that he broke the Official Secrets Act or tipped off mates about deals or negotiations then that is easier to prove with statements from people who are still alive, living in the UK and willing to come to court, or with correspondence, emails etc.

38,000 emails were passed to the Palace/Lord Chamberlain in 2020 showing this, and were buried.

Entitled is an eye-opener for sure but I think you must be on the opening chapter as that is the very least of it!

Do not read the rest of this post Cielovista
as it constitutes a spoiler!

The book goes on to eviscerate, with great precision, how AMW allegedly engaged in financial corruption, alleged systemic commercial exploitation of his royal status and public office, and opaque commercial ventures.

For example, aside from the tax-payer funded golf jollies when, according to Lownie, AMW’s massages were allegedly listed as official routine expenses, as trade envoy, supposedly representing British business interests, AMW also allegedly routinely used taxpayer-funded official trips to line his own pockets integrating unofficial, private business advisors, such as billionaire David Rowland, in to formal diplomatic meetings to help them establish lucrative commercial ventures.

He allegedly participated in questionable financial deals in China and elsewhere, including receiving massive loans from commercial interests that he was never expected to repay.

He also allegedly used royal properties and access to support "Pitch at the Palace" an entity which was supposedly a charity but was heavily scrutinised for allegedly serving private commercial interests.

Entitled also exposes how AMW was allegedly involved with suspicious offshore money transfers, illicit funding sources, and a pattern of hiding financial assets eg the alleged Nebahat Isbilen payment, his transactional financial relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, which lasted longer than he admitted, in which AMW allegedly profited financially and from receiving business advice and tip offs, while allegedly providing Epstein with contacts and respectability, the hush money for VG and the way AMW allegedly used the protective machinery of the royal household to block FOI requests, aggressively hiding receipts, funding details for the Royal Lodge etc.

And that’s just the financial aspects, leaving aside AMW’s alleged wholly sexually inappropriate behaviour, which is a whole other part of the book, eg the nanny who left because AMW allegedly behaved inappropriately towards her. And the bullying and screaming at staff and the mad driving around the Windsor estate, crashing in to gates and hurting a policeman.

This summary leaves out Sarah Ferguson’s alleged activities too!

And, one of my own personal horrors, Lownie recounts how AMW caused a major public relations disaster after his visit to Lockerbie, following the terrorist incident when Pan Am Flight 103 was blown up and the remnants crashed down on to the village, he deeply offended and shocked grieving residents by saying that,

‘… the Americans had it "much worse" and that it had only been a matter of time before a plane fell out of the sky.´

For me though, the outrage is that this behaviour was allowed to continue for eleven years minimum (in reality it went on much longer) during the time AMW served as trade envoy, with seemingly no outside official scrutiny. How was this allowed to happen?

And when the head of the Foreign Office, intelligence sources and diplomats complained to the late QE2, they were sent away with a flea in their ears! In fact, the worse he got, the more the late Queen awarded him with new honours!

Lownie says that some senior FO personnel who were willing to talk to him for the book, won’t talk openly now, presumably due to pressure from above?

Former PPOs have allegedly been silenced by legal letters. Flight logs have allegedly disappeared.

And it wasn’t just the late Queen who knew, because allegedly she, Prince Philip and the then Prince Charles, contributed to the £12 million pay off to Giuffre.

And then after all that, Charles, or someone, was allegedly responsible for a failed PR attempt to rehabilitate AMW back in to the family too eg when William was seen driving him to church.

Just why after Charles had been the only one who had strongly objected to AMW’s appointment as trade envoy in the first place, which proved he had at least some idea in advance of how AMW would behave in the role?

The thing is... we can say this till the cows come home, but until Trump is out and all the files have been released, nothing will happen, probably not even then.

Some great posts here.

I'd suggest that the Royals are mostly movtivated by a cult-like desire for self-preservation, so only two cheers if that for Charles not wanting Andrew to become trade envoy as they do worry about heat being turned on the institution, and anything that might prompt revolution.

It may sound ludicrous to us to talk about revolution but if you're a royal, it's a big concern given the events of the last century or more. QE2 was born less than 10 years after the Russian royal family got executed. That fear presides.

If the Nazis had made it across the Channel, most of us would have been okay - unless you were Jewish - but the Royals would have likely been in the firing line. Though sometimes you get the sense, as with Churchill, that the main outrage would have been the prospect of Nazis goose-stepping around Chartwell/ Buckingham Palace/Blenheim Palace/Windsor Castle etc with cocky impunity, thus evoking a 'get your tanks orf my lawn' sort of reaction.

@Chocolatethumbprints

Well said, and having read the book, you and I know it's only touching the surface. It was absolutely jaw dropping what AMW and ghastly ex wife were up to. And all covered up year after year after year.

I do not trust the Palace whatsoever.

And this story now, with Andrew challenging the search, to me means the Palace have been involved and some technicality will mean it will die a death which is obviously what the royal family desperately want.
I doubt they think he did much wrong as far as Epstein/VG. Malfeasance in public office, who knows what they think. It's doubtful they'd be shocked given the Lord Chamberlain sat on evidence supplied to him.

I’ve said before and will say again as far as the TE stuff is concerned it won’t only be AMW & PM involved. I suspect there are other high ranking ex or current persons involved. I’m surprised it’s got this far tbh.

I agree Recklessismymiddlename

And I agree with Simpsonthecat and so many other posters here. Some great posts and points made!

And I’ve said it before too, that it’s my guess that, maybe not all, but many, of the RF operate in the same way, to a greater or lesser extent. AMW was just too crass in his dealings to cover it up entirely.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Sophie and Fergie were caught in cash for access stings.

It’s the RF’s MO if you think about it and I am not saying it’s all dodgy. Just that there is imho a signing streak of dodginess that runs through their operations.

Those of us who have lived in the world for a while know what happens when money, influence, deference and lack of scrutiny and accountability co-exist within one fairly closed organisation.

I know William has made the odd personal donation but generally speaking, they rarely use their own money to pay for things, including charitable projects, but harness the wealth from others, and that would be standard procedure were it not that, sometimes, allegedly, the sources are dubious, and hence the so the so-called cash for honours or cash for passports scandals arise.

And you have internal enquires, or even charity commission enquiries, that follow that always find nothing major wrong. And a member of staff who takes the fall and is rewarded in other ways.

These incidences have been reported at length in the press, just as many of Lownie’s findings about AMW have been previously reported in newspapers, he just put it all in one book. But nothing happens subsequently… .

Lownie has also talked in podcasts about alleged gifts from the Middle East and an alleged high class jeweller. I won’t expand on that.

Meanwhile the RF take full advantage of special exemptions to land laws and financial and tax laws which apply to the rest of us, allowing them to hide their wills, maintain and preserve their position, and especially their wealth.

Agree @Chocolatethumbprints

On this...
And I’ve said it before too, that it’s my guess that, maybe not all, but many, of the RF operate in the same way, to a greater or lesser extent. AMW was just too crass in his dealings to cover it up entirely

Yes. I think AMW and Sarah were just too greedy. And QE2 let them get away with it. She bailed Sarah out of bankruptcy twice remember. With any normal person that would be a huge warning sign, but no, Sarah carried on in an even worse way, 100 times worse.

They are all like it... every one of them trades off their royal connections in some way.

I think AMW is taking advice from the Palace on what to do about his public office charges and how to bury this.

Really well summed up Chocolatethumbprints! Thank you!