How does the monarchy need to change after Andrew?

[mids2019]

I was reading about Prince William's conversation of mental health in men with others and it struck me how open (relatively) about struggles he may have had with emotion. Such openness in my mind would be inconceivable 50 years ago so are we going to see a RF that is more open and much more willing to be presented as human with greater insights into family life?

Maybe it's a case of the RF having to show the public they have nothing to hide in future with increasing scrutiny of the institution. Certainly the concept of majesty on imho has drained somewhat and there is a need for the RF to rebuild its reputation.

For me as the King is elderly and has been ill it will be William who will have the job of revitalizing the monarchy and looking to how it can presented to a newer possibly less deferential generation. The RF are going to need some good PR.

This. We don’t see all their holidays globe trotting around whilst taking free trips from x and y. Everything is buried. You don’t see them clearing up landfill sites on their property or obeying the rules. They really don’t. I had a friend who went to St Andrews same time and they were taking photos in a night club of their night out and cameras was removed and photos deleted K and W weren’t even on it - but the photos were deleted. She prevented from getting in the toilet (public) in the club as K wanted to go and they cleared everyone out she went and then she was alllowed. She wasn’t even married to him. I grew up near Sandringham and they (RF) drove with total entitlement that it was their roads (not on the estate). Everything you see is total PR and photo shops as is pretty much everything you see or hear in the press and the narrative they want to give - absolutely everything. Their lawyers are on everything.

Let's get back to the subject in hand, it's interesting. I'm enjoying the discussion.

There are so many different views in interviews and discussions in the media. I do think a generational divide applies to popularity greatly. And I'm not sure how the Palace can win over younger people. But people have been discussing the end of the Monarchy since Victorian times. But with the advent of social media, free ranging press etc, I think it is much more difficult times as Andrew has thrust them all into a media storm!

@Tresesgreen None of that surprises me. And that's just a tiny snapshot. Imagine what we don't know

They need to bugger off. They will never be transparent.

Andrew is becoming less relevant to the BRF with each passing month.
If Andrew is ever charged with anything and if he is found guilty he will be gaoled. If not, he has lost all public respect anyway.

"After Andrew" will mean carrying on with charity work and supporting those who can not speak for themselves - like the elderly, the unpopular, the old fashioned, the minority, the poor, the religious, the native plants and critters, the water ways. Continue doing what the RF do best now.
And continue with preserving historical ceremony, historical buildings and British customs.

I think there will be more training and working in regular jobs before royal engagements take up huge slathers of their time in their later years..

@simpsonthecat i wasn’t thinking of you. I’ve enjoyed our discussions. You are insightful, knowledgeable and it’s a pleasure discussing the royals with you.

Also to make it clear, I’m no royalist. I’m a constitutional monarchist, that believes parliament is sovereign.

Imo, I and the country, have been severely let down by successive governments, when it comes to the royals and our own governments.

@NewAgeNewMe
Thank you and I agree with your last paragraph.
I just think it's a bit of a mess at the moment, and I'm not sure how they are going to dig themselves out of it.
They will. Just not sure how.

I think their desperation to keep themselves on the Throne will force them to change. There is currently a Parliamentary debate that I'm half listening to, but there have been several MP's who have raised the issue of scrutiny of the RF, and abuse of power. If Parliament decides to do its job and scrutinise the Monarchy, I think they will change because they will do whatever it takes to keep hold of the Crown. If that means getting rid of the hangers on, they will. Hopefully better scrutiny of their financial dealings will mean they slash their whole operation to a far more sensible and manageable size. Not just the personnel, but the overall cost of them, the houses, the staffing etc.

Have you emailed your MP about wanting scrutiny over the ‘royals’? If you haven’t already, please do

I think the institution needs to be dissolved now by the abdication of Charles.

They’re an anachronism in the 21st century and their wealth and is obscene. William is really just a celebrity like any other at this point.

If I were a monarchist I would say Charles still needs to abdicate as the only hope for a recovery from the case of AMW would be a new start under William V , not because its Charles’ fault, but William and Catherine are popular and a coronation will take the public mind off the last few sordid years.

Get rid of all of them.

Trouble is I don't want another £150 million overblown coronation. It probably cost more than that too. Where there were three limousines and countless dressed up people taking the Crown on a red cushion in pride of place in one limousine.
Just stick William in a room and sign the papers. The coronation is just show as we well know. Charles became King the day after QE2 died so it's just us paying for a ridiculous party for them.
If William wants what his Dad had, he can pay for it.

I would reiterate this. Chris Bryant in Parliament just now addressed the issue of the RF not being discussed in Parliament. He advised them to go to the Parliamentary select committee ( I think) and put their demands to them to change the convention and practices. The more people who demand transparency from their MP's the more likely it will be that they will have to clarify the rules/change the convention.

I think so too. It sounded like something his mother would have said in the 1950’s. He had to wait too long for his postion and the whole institution is just limping along at this point. If he doesn’t abdicate and lives another ten years the monarchy doesn’t stand a chance imo.

But with Catherine’s health issues would W&C want to take over now? Quite rightly she’s doing everything on her terms from now on, but how will being Queen, and a very popular one at that, fit in with that?

We seriously need to be talking about what comes after ‘Royalty’ and putting plans in place.

What struck me when watching a bit of the debate, how few MPs were present.

@NewAgeNewMe There was no vote and no urgent debate on Energency legislation. Just a debate. If it led to anything regarding changing the law, they would be there. Plus the ones who turned up just wanted to air their anti Andrew credentials.

As I said it seems we’ve all been let down. Can’t say I’m surprised.

But with Catherine’s health issues would W&C want to take over now? Quite rightly she’s doing everything on her terms from now on, but how will being Queen, and a very popular one at that, fit in with that?

The blunt truth is, it is not a case of 'quite rightly'. Both of them need to step up. The rest of us don't get to do our jobs on our own terms forever, following a period of illness. W&C are increasingly coming over as freeloaders.

I don’t disagree in theory but I probably put it that way because I don’t think we’re just talking about ‘following a period of illness’ in Catherine’s case. I obviously don’t know but even from the little we do know about her diagnosis and what we see of her now, I really think she is still more seriously ill than we’ve been told.

So if she’s looking at an unfavourable prognosis I honestly don’t hate her for doing what she wants when she wants to, at least for the forseeable. I like to think I’n not a hypocrite and if I were her, with all that privilege I’d do the same, of course I would.

I assume Catherine was happy being Queen when she married William but while I think they both probably waste a lot of our money, I also feel sorry for her.

My own mother had cancer when I was a preteen and I only found out much later - she was luckily OK so she kept it secret. So I think that influences my feelings a bit : it must have been extra upsetting for her with all the ridiculous online stuff about Rose and 'where's Kate?'

I think the royal Family model needs to be whipped into shape financially & scrutiny-wise. But I also think that the level of media scrutiny in this day and age is really unhealthy for all of them. We need to know about their financial affairs, crimes of child abuse (!!) But neither they nor we need crazy tabloid scrutiny and online speculation.

Do you think that? I really hope not...

I don't really want to discuss on the forum but could you maybe PM me as to why you think this?

Yes, I do think that.

I’m no monarchist but as what I wrote is what I strongly suspect, I hope I’m wrong, of course, but I am genuinely sad for her, and her family.

I’m not going to pm you. Why on earth would I?

The Rex Factor

Yep I agree. Hardly any Tories. It seems they all still have half an eye on a gong.
But they did have a vote at the end. It was unanimous and the government said they wouldn't oppose it.

I understand not wanting to use PM : it's simply that I don't think it's fair to discuss Catherine's illness in any more detail on the open forum, but at the same time, I'm wondering what makes you think she is much more ill than we're being told.

If she really were terminally ill, I hope they would feel able be honest and then step back. It would not be fair to expect them to stay in the public eye if that were going on : and there would be additional questions about what it would be like for William to be king without the support of a consort : not to mention the mental effect on her 3 children & the pressure from being expected to step into royal roles.

So far, we have seen her do a limited number of engagements and say she's been in remission since last January. People in remission are still recovering, it's not surprising she might have scaled back for some months. It doesn't necessarily mean she's still dangerously ill.