How does the monarchy need to change after Andrew?

[mids2019]

I was reading about Prince William's conversation of mental health in men with others and it struck me how open (relatively) about struggles he may have had with emotion. Such openness in my mind would be inconceivable 50 years ago so are we going to see a RF that is more open and much more willing to be presented as human with greater insights into family life?

Maybe it's a case of the RF having to show the public they have nothing to hide in future with increasing scrutiny of the institution. Certainly the concept of majesty on imho has drained somewhat and there is a need for the RF to rebuild its reputation.

For me as the King is elderly and has been ill it will be William who will have the job of revitalizing the monarchy and looking to how it can presented to a newer possibly less deferential generation. The RF are going to need some good PR.

I think if they wanted to they could. William could say he would be the last King, so we would have his entire reign to put something else in place.

They don't need to change, they just need to go.

I actually liked the monarchy and believed they were a positive thing for the country. Right up until sometime in 2025.

I now believe they need to go. 100%. Everything they do, or say is just nonsense. It's just scandal after scandal.

Even their association with the C of E makes me feel very awkward and uncomfortable now. I'm not even religious!

What if no one turned up for their ribbon cutting?
What if those that do have a heckle fest?
No bouquets for Kate
No reports on her latest outfit
No pics of the kids
No interest.

I think it's heading that way, so surely their raison d'etre (to show us who's in charge) is waning anyway.

I'm not sure how things will go, but I know one thing, even amongst those who are Royalists, surely the demand will be for decency, transparency and honesty.

No bouquets for Kate
No reports on her latest outfit
No pics of the kids

That will never ever happen. A lot of the media are totally obsessed with what Kate wears and the kids. It is totally nauseating.

Which is why they chuck the kids out all the time. It's a very symbiotic relationship but all the papers have finally started demanding transparency, and once pictures of Kate and the kids don't get clicks then they will carry on going for them.

I'm inclined to think that in time the ship will turn around, and consumers of RF info might prefer the juicy and spicy details of their shenanigans rather than details of their kids' schools and their tailor/fashion designer.

I think if that happens it's game over really, but time will tell I suppose.

BP would make a good Travelodge or Premier Inn, could even be used to house a few asylum seekers, or maybe convert it into a hostel for MP's who are unable to get home every night.

I want them gone but I don’t want a Brexity calamity so it would need to be handled carefully.

For example, I think a private funeral for Charles paid for by his family when the time comes would be appropriate.

They’ll still be individuals who will attract some media attention, so people who are interested in them will have that. Kate (for example) will always be a celebrity of sorts.

How do you know what they think? Its nonsense. Time to end the monarchy.

There is an interesting parallel here with the Japanese monarchy, the oldest continuous one. Currently they refuse to allow female succession. Though this was only banned postwar, and there have been several empresses.
Moreover, any Japanese royal woman who marries a commoner loses her royal status, so her kids can't succeed.
Currently, the 19yo Prince Hisahito is under immense pressure to have a son soon since his older sister Aiko cannot succeed and she will most likely marry a commoner (not many available royals anyway) so her kids wouldn't be able to (unless they change the law). His & Aiko's mother was apparently ill from the pressure during her childbearing years : awful. There is growing Japanese consensus that the system must be reformed to survive.
I think similarly about our royal family.

I’ve always considered myself a monarchist but am increasingly disillusioned. However any change needs to be considered very, very carefully to avoid a kneejerk Brexit reaction that leads to a republic that isn’t well thought out. Beware the law of unintended consequences.

I would prefer reform over a republic. But the institution/titles/family need to be stripped right back, and the focus placed on serving the country and the commonwealth.

I think the problem of what to do with the spare(s) in order to avoid another Andrew or even Harry situation will always be tricky.

I didn't say I did know, hence the question marks 😒

I’m willing to replace them all as head of state. I’ll carry on living my life normally until required to host someone, then we can round up a few MNers and go and put the world to rights. Don’t need a sovereign grant or fancy gold coach. Just uber me around and make up my salary for missed days in the office.

edited as pressed post too soon.

Some people like the pageantry and all that, so maybe they could be kept for that and only that. It makes my skin crawl when a democratically elected PM has to bow/curtsey to a king/queen. There should be no red boxes from the government or meeting with the PM.

Terms like "HM's Government" should only be a label. A single official residence funded by the state would be ok, but everything else, apart from reasonable security, should be removed.

Another one who wants them all gone - enough is enough.

The line in Charles’s statement that “my family and I will continue in our duty and service to you all” was nauseating.

Easy win for sales. But expect the Royals to go on a publicity campaign to put up a good image. The continuous story of AMW has put the spotlight on the monarchy and their finances and what they do.

I do wonder if this whole sorry saga might prove to be the tipping point for the monarchy. Especially if it emerges that they knew about a lot more about Andrew than they have been letting on, and chose to cover it up and ignore it.

It will be very hard for them to maintain the pretence that a hereditary system can reliably produce royals who are dedicated to public service when there is so much evidence to the contrary. If it turns out that the king knew all along and did nothing, then it's pretty hard to see how they would recover from that? I guess he could abdicate and let William muddle on, but it's all starting to feel a bit tenuous.

If we're going to put one special family on a pedestal, then they at least need to behave in a way that is vaguely worthy of that pedestal.

I agree, particularly about the awarding additional bizarre titles on top. Why on earth did Andrew and Edward need to be Dukes on top of being princes?

A much smaller band of royals is the way forward.
Only the heir and their children to have any titles at all and then only using them if they are working royals. If they opt out then they leave the title behind.

I would be removing Harry’s title and his children’s, which would then out an end to Meghan Markle using the title for personal profit.

Would also remove Beatrice and Eugenie’s titles although in their current position I think they would be sensible to give them up voluntarily anyway in order to distance themselves if nothing else.

Stop pretending that the files are destroyed?

I grew up in a family who revered the monarchy. Not to the extent that they would have camped out on the streets to see them getting married etc., but who totally believed in them and who would hardly hear a word against them.

For a while I felt the same as I did not know any different. Now though, as an adult, I am much more questioning. I think that there is much more crap to come out that we don't yet know of. I also think that the pompous and odious Andrew Mountbatten Windsor in all his twattery and entitlement may have single-handedly brought about the beginning of the end for the monarchy. I doubt that has been his intention because the royal family is what gave him his status and sense of self-importance, but he is too utterly stupid to see the damage his behaviour would do.

I actually can't personally say that I would be too bothered if it did come to the end of the monarchy and I do think that all this bowing, curtseying and scraping is ridiculous.

My now very elderly mother still clings onto her support of the monarchy although even she is horrified by some of the behaviour, especially that of AMW. It has shaken the formerly rock solid beliefs of even some of the most ardent royalists.

It's not possible to produce a nice simple list of what needs to change because everything has developed over centuries and is extremely muddled, for example a PP suggested limiting houses to Buckingham Palace and Balmoral, which are owned by two different entities.

I am not saying we don't need change but I believe it starts not with small details like properties but with an analysis of who owns what and how and who does what and why.

1 Clarify finances: Royal Duchies, Crown Estate, what is the property of the monarch vs property of the individual. Look at the rules governing the Duchies and the Crown Estate, are they still fit for purpose in the 21st century? If they aren't how do you balance the need for income with the fact that the income comes to the Head of State, sometimes from places like the NHS?

2 how many senior working royals do we need and what duties do we expect them to carry out. Do we need a code of conduct?

3 politicians and the civil service need to start playing their part in the constitutional monarchy and so behaving like we have an absolute monarch. They particularly need to stop pushing responsibility onto the palace where the power lies with the state. If a member of the family is abusing their power step in and stop them if the monarch doesn't.

4 to help with 3 stop the interchange of advisers between royals and the government. Then draw palace advisers from beyond the military and public schools. Widen your advice base and listen to them.

In other words look at the system and what isn't working and what isn't then you have a rational basis for little details like who lives where.

I think that is a great list. I would say

1. No it is not fit for purpose. It is estimated that from the Duchy of Cornwall and Lancaster, the King and PoW are both 2x billionnaires. That is just not necessary for people who are apparently 'public servants' and have everything handed to them anyway. Either both or one (DoC) should be rolled into the Crown Estates. The DoL profits would easily be enough for the Monarch to provide for his family. The Crown Estates are supposed to be overseen by a Parliamentary committee but they seem to have been asleep on the job, considering they apparently just realised the amount of people who were paying 'peppercorn rents' and that despite having part of the CE money to maintain their properties, they always seem dilapidated so when some family member wants a house they whole thing has to be completely refurbished. Royal Lodge is in a state of disrepair apparently. That should have been enough to evict AMW if the CE had been on the ball.
2. Monarch, heir and spouses, and yes we should have a code of conduct. William only wants to concentrate on his 'pet' projects and Kate will probably do the same. If the others want to do charity work and be patrons of charities then they can do them the same way actors and footballers or even non working Royals do it. No Prince/Princess titles for anyone but the Monarch and heir. Their children can have them as adults if they decide to be 'working Royals' but their children don't have them.
3. This. Absolutely. This nonsense where the entire establishment bows down running scared of the Monarchy is nonsense. We are a Constitutional Monarchy. It is impossible to have one if Parliament does not do its job. That goes for the civil service and the police.
4. Agree. Again, the culture of deference needs to go. This is down to the way the RF works though. If you are brought up with adults bowing and walking out of rooms backwards, and every time you meet your family you are reminded just where you are in the pecking order with the ridiculous curtseying in order and walking in and out of places in order of course you are going to have a skewed idea of your own importance and actually probably just how intelligent you actually are. This all needs to go. Its ridiculous nonsense, and if TLQ has been less worried about who was curtseying at what time and what colour nail varnish people were wearing and more time taking notice of the behaviour of her son, maybe this whole situation would not have got as bad as it has.

I would add 5. Transparency in all areas. No exemptions from the FoI act, if they still have the Duchies they are subject to corporation tax, if they want exemptions from legislation they have to justify it in Parliament openly and explain why it is necessary. No voluntnarily paying income tax. You have to pay it at the same rate as everyone else.

The only advisory I would add about freedom of information is that there may be an intersection between some royal files and some security files which probably should stay private. Maybe overseen by a committee?

Yes true but that is the same with all documents isnt it? They can be redacted due to security concerns. There is no reason why the RF cant be subject to the same rules. None of this 'Magic of Monarchy' reasons