Duchy of Lancaster’s illegal waste dump..

[CurlewKate]

https://www.channel4.com/news/uks-worst-illegal-waste-dump-is-on-site-belonging-to-private-estate-of-king-but not our fault, Guv.

havent you homework to be getting on with

Struggling to understand how posts calling for children to be shot can remain up.

The usual royalist MO on these threads when there really is no defence to be found for the Windsors, is to attempt to muddy the waters with waffle and side issues , or the copy and paste reams from ‘royal’ websites.

The Windsors are attempting to set themselves up as ‘Nature’s special spokesperson’ now that they can’t pull the ‘God’s representative’ scam .

So however Charles got his mits on this illegal dump - let’s see how mr environment pays for the clean up . Or not .
That is the point .

All I hear is "I have lost the argument so I am trying to destroy the thread"

The Duchy office retains the services of RF lawyers Farrer and Co to act in BV matters.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/bona-vacantia-manual/bvg1040#IDAGN35E

No doubt they are meticulous both in their research and in their advice and as such well worth their fancy fees.

That didn’t occur to me but you could well be right .

If you look at the Duchy’s annual reports, they have spent an average of £225,000 a year on the external costs of managing the bona vacation they deal with. That would cover their external lawyers. That is not going to buy you a lot of legal time at Farrer’s charge out rates. Even assuming all of that is spent with their lawyers (unlikely) that’s approximately one day a week dealing with all bona vacantia issues that arise for the Duvhy.

Again, I don’t think it’s unlikely at all that it would take a human being working for or on behalf of the Duchy quite a while to work out that something that turns up on a spreadsheet one day is actually a small part of a big problem. Unlike others, I don’t presume people are omniscient. If you have some kind of system that would immediately identify this kind of issue, sell it - you would make a fortune!

@Serenster
Arguing over paperwork is not the pertinent question here .

1. Charles Windsor has pocketed the land . Was he offering it to the local council to avoid paying to clean it up ?
2. Charles Windsor has refused to accept the land because it would cost him to clean it up .

The point is the Windsors are trying to position themselves as guardians of the environment - they need a new story now the ‘god wants me to have the shiny hat’ line doesn’t work . So after pocketing over 61 million in the last decade from the deceased , the least he can do is clean this up . Let’s see .

If we're citing DoL's own reports in the debate, can I ask how you reconcile the rather triumphant claims of a 90% rate of recycling building waste in the statements and the stated strategic aim:

Embedding environmental responsibility, sustainability and integrity into everything we do

with the reports the Duchy is attempting to dump 30% of an estimated £6m clean up bill on council taxpayers?

Couldn't Charles or indeed William concentrate on something like this. Am I being naive but they bang on about environmental issues all over the world but surely this is the bottom line that affects ordinary people. Dumping.

It's a huge problem and the Environmental Agency are beyond useless.

Quite obviously, the Duchy can only be responsible for the activities they control. So far as they are, I don’t think it’s inconsistent with their stated aims when this issue was landed on them. I mean, you can say you are a careful and responsible driver, and that can be perfectly true, and someone can drive into you.

Personally, I think central government should be responsible for clearing this up - serious environmental hazards should be centrally funded. If they disclaim responsibility then yes I think the Duchy should contribute to some of the costs. But I don’t think it’s Charles’ job to step in and find what should be Central Government costs - that is unconstitutional.

Unconstitutional.. very convenient.

Quite obviously, the Duchy can only be responsible for the activities they control.

I imagine most landowners that find illegal waste dumped on their land are not to blame for it. Should all landowners be exempt from the costs of clearing their land? Or just the two richest men in the country? The world-renowned environmentalists?

Kind of the whole point of the monarchy though!

Most landowners (Councils are different) won’t be liable for something like this on their land unless they authorised it, or knew it was happening and failed to do anything to stop it. So if it was you or I, we too would be able to disclaim liability.

@Serenster again you are missing the point .

Charles and William Windsor sit above the law and are shielding themselves from the law by referencing a medieval fiefdom .

Your attempt to compare them to the average citizen in order to excuse their hypocrisy is void .

Charles and William Windsor sit above the law and are shielding themselves from the law by referencing a medieval fiefdom .

No you are missing the point - that is the law. It happens to be an ancient one, but as a PP said upthread, all legal systems have very old laws on their books. Charles and William are entitled to avail themselves of the rights afforded them by law in the same way any other person is.

I imagine most if not all of the posters here would complain bitterly if someone filled their wheels bin with nappies or whatever, leaving them no room for their own rubbish and no alternative but to take a trip to the dump at their own expense. But This is no different but much bigger. Many land owners are put to great expense to deal with fly tipping, but large scale criminal dumping cannot possibly be responsible for dealing with thousands of tons of waste that can include toxic substances, asbestos and who knows what else. It's not just a case of shovelling it up and dumping it in a legal dump.
I agree it is an issue that The King and Prince William could perhaps use their position to put pressure on the government to tackle this serious problem as it has ballooned way beyond the scope of the useless environment agency.

The levels of dumping in this country have become ridiculous as a result of the Government turning a blind eye and the EA being totally incompetent. I would love it if the King or Prince William would take a stand against it and get involved in pressuring the EA etc., but it is a Government/Council/EA responsibility and they need to sort out the problem.

Whoever pays (and as I pointed out previously, DoL has already offered to negotiate terms with Wigan Council - ie. contribute to the clean up), it is Wigan Council or the Government/EA that will need to decide what to do with the tons of rubbish involved - it is not something that can be dealt with independently by the DoL!

@Serenster
Oh we are very aware that it is ‘law’ that William and Charles can set themselves above the ‘law’

But this ‘law’ is a declaration from the early Middle Ages - which by the way was repealed 40 years later - hardly a law as we understand it today

And the optics of course ….. All these ridiculous medieval get out clauses has not resulted in generosity and morality on the part of the right royal rip off merchants . Quite the opposite .
And that is the heart of this issue

and as I pointed out previously, DoL has already offered to negotiate terms with Wigan Council - ie. contribute to the clean up)

Have they actually offered to contribute? Last I heard, they wanted to offload the land and/or clean up to the Council.

The Duchy of Lancaster is exempt from regulations to clean the site due to an ancient legal framework from 750 years ago. A spokesperson said that it does not have to take responsibility for cleaning the land, instead offering it to Wigan Council to clean up.

Snap. Yes. An ancient law from 750 years ago all to do with the peasants revolting.

But this ‘law’ is a declaration from the early Middle Ages - which by the way was repealed 40 years later - hardly a law as we understand it today

Incorrect. Escheat is common law, not statute. It is part of UK law - no need for thr quote marks. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it not part and parcel of the UK legal system.

Your fundamental right to due process and a fair trial comes from a declaration of the early Middle Ages, by the way. Is that too “hardly a law” as you understand it today?

@Serenster

If you are referring to Magna Carta it applied the law to kings.

Tell that to William and Charles .

I am quite sure Charles realises that. After all, he recently took an oath to govern the United Kingdom and its Commonwealth realms according to their respective laws and customs.

Unlike some posters, hopefully he realises that laws and customs includes all laws and customs, not just those he thinks are appropriate.