Duchy of Lancaster’s illegal waste dump..

[CurlewKate]

https://www.channel4.com/news/uks-worst-illegal-waste-dump-is-on-site-belonging-to-private-estate-of-king-but not our fault, Guv.

The income from Duchy properties does go to William and Charles, but not the assets from the intestate, as those are often sold to help pay for the upkeep of the other historical properties and projects like Dumfries House.

I have no issues with charity funds being spent on projects such as Dumfries House as it has benefited a huge number of people and has ensured that a beautiful property was restored and maintained for the future and supported a wonderful educational resource. What has been achieved at Dumfries House is great.

The only dubious issue were donations adding up to around £200,000 (betwen 2009 and 2011) from the previously well-respected Armenian philanthropist and ex-investment banker who was previously a nominee for a Nobel Peace Prize. He has however more recently been subject to investigations and sanctions as a result of the Ukraine war and I believe is now a political prisoner in jail for 'crimes against the state' in Azerbaijan.

Do you really believe that charities should be expected to carry out detailed background investigations into the source of every donation they receive beyond a basic public knowledge of the individual concerned? At the time of the donations, Vardanyan was very highly thought of and this country was still on good business terms with Russia.

These donations were nothing to do with the 'cash for honours' scandal.

I yes @RainbowBagels thats true but then we are told that William and Charles have to - positively forced to - charge max rent to schools, hospitals , the armed services etc as profit is key .

It’s the same shameful story - private when it suits them , public when it suits them. Medieval liege lord when it suits them , ruthless capitalist profit maximiser when it suits them .

Give the people their say and let’s see if we are happy to tolerate this

This link to Dumfries House is very tenuous. It is just a building with offices partly used by the charity.

Did you read the article?

"The investigation also concluded that the foundation's ethics committee process was followed when a £100,000 donation from Russian banker Dmitry Leus, made via the Mahfouz Foundation, was given back."

"Mr Fawcett and another unnamed senior employee were subsequently involved in directing a transfer of funds from the Mahfouz Foundation to another charity, the Children and the Arts Foundation (CATA), the investigation concluded.

It said this activity took place without the trustees' knowledge.

CATA was set up by the Prince of Wales in 2006, but Clarence House said he ceased being its patron in 2019 before this transfer of funds took place.

The investigation also found:

There was no evidence that the foundation's employees or trustees were aware of private dinners being sold or arranged in exchange for money

There was no evidence of commissions being paid to society fixer Michael Wynne-Parker or Burke's Peerage editor William Bortrick"

Again, journalists trying to cause trouble with very little to link any wrong-doing by the royal family! Fawcett was a very dodgy employee for the then Prince Charles in many respects, but he was fired when all this came to light.

I do think the royal family are very vulnerable and have been naive to this type of corruption and have been poorly advised over the years. I think this aspect of the palace needs a big shake up and should be more accountable.

Well @FalseSpring I was referring to the cash for honours scandal . The met interviewed staff . Someone’s fell on their sword .
I think you are referencing another scandal .
Hard to keep up isn’t it ?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/05/dumfries-house-the-stately-home-at-the-heart-of-a-royal-crisis

And again @FalseSpring I have no idea why you are trying to suggest that trustees etc are linked to the scandal when the focus is on the Windsors .
Dumfries house was Charles’ project .

@Ukisgaslit

The profits from Dumfries House are used to make the place sustainable in the long-term and help pay for the educational facilities etc. Big houses like that cost a fortune to run so the income is used to defray costs and if there is any surplus, it will be kept in reserve for major repairs or additional projects (such as the 2026 extension) on the site.

Although Dumfries House was Charles' pet project and his charities provided most of the funding, there were other parties involved and a trust was set up to manage the project. Charles did not carry out the project alone or personally! The trustees would have managed the restoration and finances, etc.

Wasn’t it Dumfries House that caused a bit of bother for KC3? With Fawcett the Fence handling bags of cash from Saudi and Quatari millionaires in exchange for passports

That’s the one - but new day new scandal it seems .

Just to add, The King's Foundation that manages Dumfries House is a registered charity so no profits are returned to the royal family. The accounts, along with details of trustees etc, are publically available as they are for any charity.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC331738/filing-history

The issue with Dumfries house @FalseSpring was the cash for honours scandal . Some of the money was supposedly raised for Dumfries house via that MET investigated scandal .

Charles is a billionaire off the back of the people of the UK - why in earth doesn he put his hand in his own pocket rather than get involved in scandal ?

What about my previous post pointing out that the whole idea of Bona Vacantia is for the funds to be used for charitable concerns within the Duchy. Yet DoL funds from BV have been used by the millions for the upkeep of the Savoy Chapel? It is a private chapel of the Monarch in the Strand, London. What is that to do with the area that the Duchy covers?
Yet again, it will be excused because it represents a 600 year old link to the Duchy's feudal roots. Apparently. It's all to do with the 1381 Peasants Revolt. How convenient!

Only 15% of BV money has gone to charitable concerns, of the £62million collected in 10 years, only £1.7million has been given to charitable causes in Lancashire, Greater Manchester.
The Duchy of Lancaster Jubilee Trust has received £5.4m in bona vacantia revenues since 2013. More than 99% of its payouts over that period have gone to maintaining the Savoy chapel. And that's just one of the Trusts.

The Savoy Chapel is open to the public for regular services, events, private worship or simply to visit as a tourist.

It’s not a private chapel of the monarch in the sense that no one else uses it.

That is what it is called even on the Savoy Chapel website and the DoLancaster website.
I'm only repeating what they say....
The Archbishop of Canterbury will let you marry there if you have a qualifying condition, like if you have connections with the Duchy.

It goes round and round doesn't it....

The Savoy chapel is open to the public and is part of the Duchy's London estate. The Duchy of Lancaster owns considerable property portfolios (including many historic properties) outside Lancaster and is obliged to keep them in good repair.

I'm not sure where your figures come from, but this is the statement in the Annual Report for 2025 (overseen by the Treasury and audited) -

"Until 31st March 2025, net income from bona vacantia, after
allocations for future liabilities and the costs of administering
bona vacantia, was applied by the Duchy to the costs of
Palatine administration and historical obligations, which include
Lancaster Castle, The King’s Chapel of the Savoy and nine
other castles, and at the direction of the Council the balance
was transferred to the Duchy of Lancaster Jubilee Trust, the
Duchy of Lancaster Benevolent Fund or The Duke of Lancaster
Housing Trust, and other separate registered charities.

From 1st April 2025, the net income from bona vacantia
will be transferred on receipt by the Duchy to The Jubilee
Trust, (now renamed The Duke of Lancaster’s Foundation)
after consideration made to any further contributions to the
Late Claim Fund and any direct charitable grants made
by the Duchy.

The Duchy of Lancaster charitable funds comprise three
separate registered charities.
•
The Duchy of Lancaster Benevolent Fund (established in
1993) makes donations to a wide range of charitable causes,
primarily within the County Palatine. In the year to 31st March
2025 it made 273 grants totalling £473,000. At 31st March
2025, it had an endowment of £18.4m.
•
The Duke of Lancaster Housing Trust (established in 2007)
provides affordable rural housing, predominantly within or
close to the Duchy’s estates. At 31st March 2025, it owns 43
houses, with the most recent asset valuation of £7.9m.
•
The Duke of Lancaster’s Foundation (formerly The Duchy of
Lancaster Jubilee Trust) was established in 2001 to benefit
charitable causes in all areas associated with the Duchy and
will, from 1st April 2025, be the recipient of all net income
from bona vacantia. The Foundation had an endowment of
£38m at 31st March 2025.

The annual audited accounts of all three charities are published
separately and are available from the Charity Commission and
from the Duchy Office."

The accounts clearly show that the proceeds from bona vacantia equal the charitable payments. At no time has any of this income been used for the benefit of the monarch!

The DoL also has signifcant investment income and rental income from its wider estate (particularly it's commercial and agricultural estate etc). It is this income (net of expenses), not the bona vacantia income, that goes to the monarch.

The attached gives the breakdown of the proceeds of bona vacantia for the last two years. As I said, I have no idea where you got your figures for the Savoy Chapel expenditure from.

Is the King too busy with his launch of his documentary on Amazon?

You are welcome to blind me with this, but here you go... enjoy

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/24/kings-estate-facing-questions-over-14m-in-bona-vacantia-not-donated-to-charity

The accounts clearly show that the proceeds from bona vacantia equal the charitable payments. At no time has any of this income been used for the benefit of the monarch!

It goes in the pot and Charles receives a % of that pot

Also a lot of the funds are held on deposit, so no, not all BV funds equal charitable payments.

Do you think that what the money is used for should be for initiatives and charities in the DoL area?

‘Audited’ ….. . That’s trumpeted a lot by royalists . As is ‘they pay tax’. Not the full story now is it @FalseSpring ?

The National Audit office has asked and been refused proper access to the books .
We are given a spurious reason .

We are told William and Charles pay tax but they themselves decide what will be declared for tax and what won’t .

Charles did declare how much tax he paid but William immediately stopped that practice and has refused to open the books since .
So we have to take on trust that some tax is paid . Could be a tenner for all we know .

You are seeing the word private and reading it as exclusive to the King - in this situation though it refers to its status outside of the jurisdiction of the Anglican hierarchy. It’s very much open and used by non Royal people for worship and visiting.

As to the wider issue of BV - I think a review of the whole system - including both the Duchies and the rest of the country’s unclaimed estates - and perhaps creating a system where profits are directed back into the areas they came from. I’m guessing we don’t have any info on what the Treasury does with their profits?

I assume a lot is spent on admin and managing the estates if they have to be kept for 30 years in case a claimant can be found with any profits kept aside for 12 years for potential claimants.

As to the wider issue of BV - I think a review of the whole system - including both the Duchies and the rest of the country’s unclaimed estates - and perhaps creating a system where profits are directed back into the areas they came from.

Yes yes yes to this particularly for the Duchies

@simpsonthecat

The Duchy bona vacantia receipts DO NOT go into the 'pot' as you call it and King Charles does not get a percentage. The accounts are 100% transparent on that.

The accounts are audited annually by a professional audit firm in the same way as other charities, with additional oversight from the Treasury. The Trustees, who all have full access to the books are appointed by the Chancellor of the Duchy, an elected Government minister.

That Guardian article is complete garbage and obviously written by someone with absolutely no understanding of accounting principles!

I knew you would say it was garbage. Very predictable answer!

You didn't answer my question...

Do you think that what the money is used for should be for initiatives and charities in the DoL area?

There needs to be a open, transparent and accountable root and branch review of the Royal family, its estates and administration, its finances here and abroad (including any held off shore). And that review should be made public in language that would be understood by all of us who don't have legal training!

@simpsonthecat

I think it is acceptable that some of the money is used to maintain the historic properties owned by the Duchy across the country.

Maybe the spending on the Savoy chapel was excessive but I believe there was a new stained glass window installed to celebrate the late Queen's diamond jubilee.

The Duchy owns quite a few old castles and other historic property but many are managed jointly with English Heritage. Again I don't take issue with funds going towards these properties to keep them in good repair in accordance with the existing rules on bona vacantia:

• Halton Castle
• Ogmore Castle
• Peveril Castle
• Knaresborough Castle
• Lancaster Castle
• Pickering Castle
• Bolingbroke Castle
• Pontefract Castle
• Tutbury Castle
• Tickhill Castle

The 2025 accounts show that £7.2m was spent on the upkeep of castles and historic monuments. This, along with a few other costs bringing the total to £8.3m was deducted from the bona vacantia receipts. In 2025 it appears that only £71,000 was spent on the Savoy chapel. Almost £3m was transferred to a reserve to provide cover for late claims, leaving a balance of £1.8 that went to charities that should support causes in the area.

Reading the reports etc, it appears that the arrangements have been altered slightly going forward in order to make it even more transparent than it was to demonstrate that all the funds from bona vacantia will be going to charity. How those charities spend their income is a decision for the trustees of each charity, but again, they are legally obliged to publish accounts and show that the funds are used for charitable purposes.