Duchy of Lancaster’s illegal waste dump..

[CurlewKate]

https://www.channel4.com/news/uks-worst-illegal-waste-dump-is-on-site-belonging-to-private-estate-of-king-but not our fault, Guv.

Re bona vacantia - in England and Wales it is administered by the Treasury Solicitor (part of the Government Legal Department) on behalf of the Crown. As I understand it once the estate has been administered (with no heirs confirmed) the balance is transferred to the Treasury (if not linked to the Duchies).

There are slightly different arrangements for Scotland and N Ireland.

"The duchy is administered on behalf of the sovereign by the chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster, a government minister appointed by the sovereign on the advice of the prime minister, and by the clerk of the council.[17] The former position is sometimes held by a cabinet minister, but is always a ministerial post. For at least the last two centuries the duchy has been run by a deputy; the chancellor has rarely had any significant duties pertaining to its management but is available as a minister without portfolio and is answerable to Parliament for the effective running of the estate.[18][19][20][21]

The monarch derives the privy purse from the revenues of the duchy. The surplus for the year ended 31 March 2025 was £24.4 million and the duchy was valued at £678.7 million.[22] Its land holdings are not to be confused with the Crown Estate, whose revenues have been handed to the Treasury since the 18th century in exchange for the receipt of a yearly payment.

The Duchy Council's primary officers carrying out the estate's day-to-day duties are the clerk of the council of the duchy of Lancaster (the chief executive officer), the chairman of the council, and the chief finance officer.[23] The chancellor is responsible for the appointment of the steward and the barmaster of the barmote courts on behalf of the sovereign in right of the duchy.[24]"

From Wikipedia. I looked it up to confirm the structure. Toxic waste should be removed, obviously.

But why is the responsibility for this dump existing being placed on the King?

@BasiliskStare you are saving me some typing 😊

Agree with your distinction between royalist and constitutional monarchist

But why is the responsibility for this dump existing being placed on the King?

No one on here has said that.

With regards to the Oxford dump the local council said that the clean up would cost more than their entire annual budget. Whilst the Duchy clearly has resources greater than than the average landowner I think that these cases of large scale criminal dumps need managing by the EA and government. I don’t think full responsibility should fall to the individual landowner even if they are very wealthy. And in this case of course the Duchy doesn’t own all the land affected.

That's a good point @ShamedBySiri - I confess to not being up to date on all the details so wasn't aware of the scale of the clean-up needed. You're right, there is a responsibility on government to deal with these dumps.

And, of course, if the Duchy did throw money at this, which might be the easy PR 'win', there would always be something else. I hope they do contribute in some way.

The local MP was angry that the Oxford dump which was close to a motorway got cleared by the EA straight away whereas this dump is next to housing and primary school and the EA haven’t touched it. The school had to close when the stench and fumes got too bad. The King wants this land but won’t pay for its maintenance and so is now trying to palm it off to Wigan Council so local taxpayers bear the cost of cleaning it up. The whole thing is a massive disgrace.

You are fooling yourself -
‘constitutional monarchist’ is a fig leaf term to hide the blushes of shy royalists .

Anyone continuing to support the Windsors, in the light of all we know about ther protection and support of pedophiles and sex offenders, should be ashamed of themselves.

But why is the responsibility for this dump existing being placed on the King?

Because a small proportion of the land which the dump is on has been found to belong to the Duchy - and if that can be made the story, it will avoid people looking at the waste mountain here, others elsewhere, the situation in Birmingham, and thinking that the government is (literally) making a mess of things.

He is being called a hypocrite, amongst other things, upthread. Unless there is evidence that he knew about this and ignored it I don't see why that is.

This is another case of a large organisation having things under its remit that aren't as they should be. I'm interested in what happens next.

Charles was happy to pocket the income ( he has nothing to do with the running of the duchy - none of the Windsors would have the ability to).
Now he has been exposed he is trying to to offload the land on to a council so the council will be in the book for the million it will cost to clean up .
Utter hypocrisy and dereliction of duty- the latest in a long list of such

I would still like to know how much the Duchy profits from non contaminated land that it gets for free…..

I think he is hypocritical and I explained why in my first post on here.

I completely agree that we need far more financial clarity in royal/ Crown Estate finances. That's what I'd like to see movement on in the circles that could actually bring change.

A toxic dump needs clearing up but the fact that it technically belongs to the King doesn't make him a hypocrite in my eyes, unless there is evidence that he knew and deliberately did nothing about it.

The Duchy has told Channel 4 News that it is, in effect, exempt from regulations and duties to clean the site on account of an ancient feudal legal framework dating back some 750 years.
The Duchy appears to be shifting responsibility for the clean-up by offering it to Wigan Council, saying it does not have to take on any liabilities of the property due to ‘escheat’ law.
This refusal to take proactive action appears to contradict the Environment Agency’s own longstanding guidance that landowners are responsible for clearing illegal waste from their property.

So again the Duchy is able to swerve the law that applies to other landowners.

@bluegreygreen

Why have you stated that only ‘ a small proportion’ of the contaminated land is linked to Charles ?
What are you basing your statement on?

This is what Channel 4 have published :
An investigation by Channel 4 News can exclusively reveal that an illegal waste dump near Wigan is on land largely owned by the Duchy of Lancaster, the King’s extensive private portfolio of properties ‘

Noted.

I think there is more nuance - but I see your opinion.

Are we to believe that any land acquired by the Duchy in this way is not assessed and valued?

Unless there is evidence that he knew about this and ignored it I don't see why that is.

We have evidence that he's happy to pick the pockets of the NHS, charities (including some he's patron of) and his own armed forces.

We know he's driven the commercialisation of the holdings in the interests of increasing his take and we know there are a team of executives (and a cabinet minister) looking after the management of the Duchy.

It's hard to believe a problem of this magnitude could pass unnoticed by any of them.

@MrsLeonFarrell

Charles has been shown to be an environmental hypocrite ( so is William ) . When abuses are revealed it’s always ‘ oh he was unaware ‘
Always unaware .
Now we know about this contaminated land Charles is suddenly happy to give it to the council . Why ? So they will have to pay .
So he took once for his tax free profits and is now taking again to have the taxpayer pay to clean up after him!

Where is this ‘ duty ‘ that we are always being told about ? The very least he should do is pay for the whole clean up . The very least .
Will he though ?

My first post (the second post on the thread) quoted from the Channel 4 story:

Investigating the landowners behind the Wigan site has exposed a complex system of land ownership which saw part of the dump (my emphasis) come into King’s possession.

@simpsonthecat has since quoted a figure of 30%, so must have some more up to date information.

Even if the Duchy did pay their share of the clean up (I think it was said upthread that they own just 30%of the land so yes that is a small proportion @Ukisgaslit) this in no way addresses the wider problem. There is clearly an urgent need for law reform around this with far more substantial sanctions and consequences for the criminals involved and The King would be better spending time to bring pressure on the government to treat this organised crime with the seriousness it deserves.

Yes, I took 30% from an article. OK, that isn't the majority but to wash their hands of it because some ancient law says they don't have to deal with any 'onerous' liabilities from this free inherited land, is really a bit rich, isn't it...
So they say... here.. Council, you can have the land and deal with it!

What about optics, what about the promises for Duchy monies to be for the good of the community? The people living nearby are in hell with this.

I cant see what the difference is between a Royalist and a Constitutional Monarchist if one feels they can never do any wrong. Charles is a landowner. He is responsible for clearing waste from his land, or he would be if it wasn't for the fact that the Duchies are exempt from any laws they fancy that may mean they have to put their hands in their pockets. You cant say 'Oh he's not responsible because he personally didn't know'. He is responsible for making sure there is no toxic waste dumped on his land. He has a ton of staff, some of whom are very adept at managing the Duchies to benefit him, like negotiating watertight contracts with supine fawning governments. He as a landowner has a responsibility to maintain his land. Its no defence for anyone who isn't the King or William to say 'Oh I didn't know about it'. Can you imagine any other landowner trying to get away with that? What about being a Constitutional Monarchist is different from being a flag waving Royalist if you still believe they should be able to do what they like and be exempt from any responsibilities they like just because they are Royals?

The thing is AFAIC I never see them being altruistic or unselfish. Ever.

Pay for the Coronation, clear up this land even if it comes out of Duchy funds (which I imagine means the bottom line cash payout will be less for Charles)

Yes, he let the billions of windfarm in the sea dosh be made over to the public, he made sure we knew about that!

I don't think they care.