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ThePoshUns · 10/02/2026 17:42

If the invoices were from 2006, wouldn’t they have been dealt with at the Leveson enquiry? And aren’t the claims from 2016 onwards?

Lunde · 10/02/2026 17:48

His cross-examination must end by 3pm after Mr Justice Nicklin said today's questioning of Dacre by barrister David Sherborne was not relevant enough to his ruling.
"I don't consider the large bulk of questions today to have real relevance to what I have to decide," the judge told Sherborne.

Judge Nicklin is stamping on Sherborne's (repeated) attempts to turn this into a public inquiry - the judge has made clear before that Sherborne needs to show a clear link between illegal methods and the actual articles that are the subject of the case

CraftyGin · 10/02/2026 17:48

ThePoshUns · 10/02/2026 17:42

If the invoices were from 2006, wouldn’t they have been dealt with at the Leveson enquiry? And aren’t the claims from 2016 onwards?

I wonder if that is why the judge said that the evidence was not relevant enough for his ruling.

Lunde · 10/02/2026 17:51

CraftyGin · 10/02/2026 17:48

I wonder if that is why the judge said that the evidence was not relevant enough for his ruling.

The Judge has repeatedly warned Sherborne and the claimants not to try and turn the trial into Leveson 2 but throwing in vague and unspecific allegations of wrongdoing not linked to the actual articles

bluegreygreen · 10/02/2026 18:00

Lunde · 10/02/2026 17:51

The Judge has repeatedly warned Sherborne and the claimants not to try and turn the trial into Leveson 2 but throwing in vague and unspecific allegations of wrongdoing not linked to the actual articles

Yes, Judge Nicklin has repeated told the claimants that they must bring specific evidence and not try to turn this into a public inquiry.

The time period does overlap, though. From a part that I didn't copy across above (because it wasn't Dacre's evidence) the allegations relate to 'more than 50 articles written between 1993 and 2011'.

OP posts:
GwendolineFairfax8 · 10/02/2026 19:08

bluegreygreen · 10/02/2026 17:41

Removed as already posted by @PrayForMyBum

Sorry for multiple posts - just thought we might be glad at some point to have everything in the thread.

Now I can read through!

Edited

@bluegreygreen

Thank you so much for all this 👏

StartupRepair · 10/02/2026 19:35

It's really interesting.

bluegreygreen · 10/02/2026 22:45

Thanks @CraftyGin

Archive link: https://archive.is/StH8l

OP posts:
Lunde · 10/02/2026 22:51

CraftyGin · 10/02/2026 19:54

From the Telegraph article Judge Nicklin seems to be getting seriously fed up with Sherborne's grandstanding.

After almost two hours of cross-examination, Mr Justice Nicklin warned Mr Sherborne that the bulk of his questions to Mr Dacre had not addressed the specific claims and said he was “struggling” to understand their relevance.
He warned that the case was not a public inquiry and gave him until 3pm on Wednesday to complete his cross-examination.

GoldThumb · 10/02/2026 23:15

How many times do we think ‘not a public enquiry’ has been said by the judge at this point?

bluegreygreen · 11/02/2026 00:06

Thinking through Dacre's evidence now I've had a chance to read it -

He's repeating on oath in court what he's said in the Leveson Inquiry, as you'd expect - that he had carried out an internal investigation and is confident there was no phone hacking at the DM. Fair enough.

Re spending £3m on private investigators over 20 years: that works out as an average of £150k per year. I don't know the DM/MoS budget, but it's a pretty big organisation, so the amount doesn't seem out of the ordinary. (In contrast, didn't Graham Johnson pay someone £75k in relation to this trial?)
Again, paying for information isn't illegal. Asking someone to do something illegal clearly would be.

After 2005, when a private investigator who ran a search agency the DM had used was convicted of breaching information laws, there were multiple warnings sent out to journalists at the DM via editors about data protection laws and legal implications, and eventually use of search agencies was banned.
The suggestion here is that everyone was using these agencies, and the DM assumed the agencies were using legitimate methods.
It feels like this is the grey area - that if there was activity that falls under the heading of 'unlawful information gathering' this is where it might be found.

From my perspective, I can believe that there wasn't any phone hacking at the DM. I think I'm less confident that the search agencies they used always used legitimate methods before 2005.
If that is the case, whether the DM didn't realise, or didn't care at the time, I wouldn't like to say.

Meanwhile, the claimants still need to show that, in each case, there is evidence of illegal activity linking the DM to the article in question. So far, the evidence hasn't been overwhelming.

OP posts:
jeffgoldblum · 11/02/2026 00:09

Very good and fair analysis @bluegreygreen! , I’m still in the Sherborne is a shady chancer camp though! 🤣

bluegreygreen · 11/02/2026 00:16

Definitely agree with you on Sherborne @jeffgoldblum

OP posts:
jeffgoldblum · 11/02/2026 00:19

bluegreygreen · 11/02/2026 00:16

Definitely agree with you on Sherborne @jeffgoldblum

😁 hard not to isn’t it! , I’m glad I’m not the only one still awake and thinking about this and other things!

ThePoshUns · 11/02/2026 06:50

Thank you for that explanation @bluegreygreen.

TheAutumnCrow · 11/02/2026 07:05

Thanks, @bluegreygreen. I agree that potential DPA breaches might be thought of as a possible ANL ‘weak spot’.

It’s interesting, isn’t it, though, that the claimants come across as being almost frenetically concerned with allegations of hacking and covert recording, and not with breaches of the Data Protection Act. I wonder if that’s connected to the fact that payouts for breaches of the DPA have historically been far, far lower than those for hacking? Same for settlements.

MrsFinkelstein · 11/02/2026 07:57

Reading over the reporting so far, it seems Sherborne is basically throwing everything at the wall and hoping some muck will stick in the Judge's mind.

Dacre came across as measured and calm in response.

The amount spent sounds huge, but over 10 years is much less impressive. I agree Sherborne is hoping that the information gathering firms were using illegal methods and the Mail will be caught up that way, in a general "well they must have been".. But he needs to show the claimant's articles were from UIG specifically. He seems on very shaky ground at the moment.

Dacre hasn't said anything he didn't already say at Leveson.

RecoIIectionsMayVary · 11/02/2026 08:13

I think I'm less confident that the search agencies they used always used legitimate methods before 2005

I agree. But it would be reasonable for anyone to have been aware of this fact at the time of Leverson.

TheAutumnCrow · 11/02/2026 08:22

MrsFinkelstein · 11/02/2026 07:57

Reading over the reporting so far, it seems Sherborne is basically throwing everything at the wall and hoping some muck will stick in the Judge's mind.

Dacre came across as measured and calm in response.

The amount spent sounds huge, but over 10 years is much less impressive. I agree Sherborne is hoping that the information gathering firms were using illegal methods and the Mail will be caught up that way, in a general "well they must have been".. But he needs to show the claimant's articles were from UIG specifically. He seems on very shaky ground at the moment.

Dacre hasn't said anything he didn't already say at Leveson.

And on top of this, Harry has already said Camilla was planting his private life in the tabloids, Doreen has already given sworn evidence to an inquiry that the Police were spying on her, Elton was incensed with his own PR guy, and all of them had large circles of friends, families, staff, colleagues and acquaintances.

The people I’d actually like to see nailed to the wall are any medical staff who sell private medical details of ‘celebrities’. Having said that, however, I found out that a well-known politician was in hospital and why (this was a few years ago) because a woman I knew locally from our DC’s school was a cleaner there, and was blabbing about it at the school gate. I had to do my special raised eyebrow thing. Maybe a lot more ‘leaking’ is down to stupidity rather than venality or malice.

Lifestooshort71 · 11/02/2026 08:26

TheAutumnCrow · 11/02/2026 08:22

And on top of this, Harry has already said Camilla was planting his private life in the tabloids, Doreen has already given sworn evidence to an inquiry that the Police were spying on her, Elton was incensed with his own PR guy, and all of them had large circles of friends, families, staff, colleagues and acquaintances.

The people I’d actually like to see nailed to the wall are any medical staff who sell private medical details of ‘celebrities’. Having said that, however, I found out that a well-known politician was in hospital and why (this was a few years ago) because a woman I knew locally from our DC’s school was a cleaner there, and was blabbing about it at the school gate. I had to do my special raised eyebrow thing. Maybe a lot more ‘leaking’ is down to stupidity rather than venality or malice.

I agree, and gossips usually do it to feel important in a group - not a nice trait.

TheAutumnCrow · 11/02/2026 08:27

RecoIIectionsMayVary · 11/02/2026 08:13

I think I'm less confident that the search agencies they used always used legitimate methods before 2005

I agree. But it would be reasonable for anyone to have been aware of this fact at the time of Leverson.

Yes, this is why the claimants all had to pretend to be so mysteriously uninterested in Leveson. The collective ‘didn’t take much notice’ stance was quite something.

jeffgoldblum · 11/02/2026 08:29

TheAutumnCrow · 11/02/2026 08:22

And on top of this, Harry has already said Camilla was planting his private life in the tabloids, Doreen has already given sworn evidence to an inquiry that the Police were spying on her, Elton was incensed with his own PR guy, and all of them had large circles of friends, families, staff, colleagues and acquaintances.

The people I’d actually like to see nailed to the wall are any medical staff who sell private medical details of ‘celebrities’. Having said that, however, I found out that a well-known politician was in hospital and why (this was a few years ago) because a woman I knew locally from our DC’s school was a cleaner there, and was blabbing about it at the school gate. I had to do my special raised eyebrow thing. Maybe a lot more ‘leaking’ is down to stupidity rather than venality or malice.

didn’t an American judge ? Solicitor? Discount spare as a work of fiction when that campaign group were using his drug confessions as evidence for a visa inquiry?

binkie163 · 11/02/2026 08:47

TheAutumnCrow · 11/02/2026 08:27

Yes, this is why the claimants all had to pretend to be so mysteriously uninterested in Leveson. The collective ‘didn’t take much notice’ stance was quite something.

As far as the leveson inquiry was concerned DM didn't use UIG so it would be something for the judge to disagree with that, it was a hard hitting investigation from what little I remember of it.
I still haven't seen a single cause/effect link where the chain from story to blag/phone hack happened.

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