Andrew breaking the law

[Gizzagizza]

So, can I just get this straight - at the time Prince Andrew slept with the 17 year old Virginia Giuffre - was it illegal in the UK to have sex with a prostitute who was under 18? Was illegal to have sex with someone who had been trafficked? I know it is now.

Men like that often can’t help but boast about who they are and what they’ve got, so you may be surprised. They also probably didn’t imagine a time when this would all come out because those sorts of men feel untouchable and above answering to anyone.

Are you related or in a relationship with Andrew mountbatten?

What?

Why are you looking g at UK law when he did this in the US?

I'm under the impression that the allegations are that he had sexual relations with VG once in the UK and twice in the US.

I’m interested in whether Andrew has broken the law in any jurisdiction.
What he did to Virginia Giuffre in the UK was morally repugnant, but it seems that it was probably not against the law in the UK at that time. It may have been against the law in the US (and from previous responses I think it probably was, but I’m not sure.)
There are now so many allegations against Andrew that it seems likely he broke the law in other ways even if he didn’t break the law with VG (in the UK).
It’s difficult to know how many of these allegations are substantiated by evidence of any kind - and I would be interested to find out - but I guess that’s one for another thread!

But what does it matter if what he did is legal or not?? His banishment from society is not based on whether he committed a crime or not, and same goes for Fergie. They both had dealings with epstein, and as others turned out continued the friendship long after his conviction

Agreed.

And VG I think first pressed charges in the US in relation to the activities on soil US where the law was different to the UK in that the age of consent was 18 at that time. The US law enforcement wanted to speak to AMW but he has avoided it.

The photo taken in the UK is conflating the whole situation.

I think he broke the law in the states because she was under age of consent
But it would be incredibily difficult to prove he knew her age. If he was to say she told me she was 18 or Epstein said she was 18 then how do the courts prove otherwise?

He had sex with her in the UK but i dont think laws were broken

Right.

Multimillionaires regularly bring 17 year old girls with them on overseas trips?

There is something going around, I can't remember the source, possibly Giuffre's book that he ordered her from a book of photos, like a catalogue.

I want to stress I do not know if this is true. If it is then AMW should have known she was trafficked.

Those poor girls. Those vile men.

Virgina sued Andrew in New York State (a civil claim, not a prosecution, she did not “file charges” as a PP as said). The only tangible outcome of that claim would be a damages award (i.e. payment of money) from Andrew, not any kind of criminal finding. The claim was based on Andrew having sex with Virginia three times - once in London, once in New York and once on Epstein’s island.

The reason why Virginia sued in New York State rather than London is essentially because she couldn’t bring a claim in London - the events took place in 2001, 20 years before her lawsuit was filed - she would have been long out of time to bring any civil claim in the UK over these actions. But obviously she wanted the London allegation included because she had the photo of her and Andrew in London - that was very powerful evidence.

Helpfully for Virginia, New York State has what is called a “long arm jurisdiction” that meant she was able to sue Andrew there for events which happened in London and the Caribbean and had only the most tenuous connection to New York (She also sued on the very last day she was able to in order to avoid her case being out of time to litigate there). The court would have had to consider whether the actions she alleged were legal or not in each of the countries where they took place.

Surely we know enough now to be clear that we should believe women when they say that men have abused them. Being made to smile and look happy is routine for women forced into porn and prostitution, why are people still so naive? If you always believe the woman you will very occasionally be wrong, if you always believe the accused male you will almost always be wrong.

We have a long thread about a customer complaining about a woman not being smiling enough in her workplace. Most agree she should be friendlier to customers. VG would be expected to seem happy enough to be there.

Or maybe she was just trying to make the best of it and survive her life circumstances. Showing sadness admits vulnerability to her captors.