Andrew breaking the law

[Gizzagizza]

So, can I just get this straight - at the time Prince Andrew slept with the 17 year old Virginia Giuffre - was it illegal in the UK to have sex with a prostitute who was under 18? Was illegal to have sex with someone who had been trafficked? I know it is now.

I agree - and thank you for clarifying that it was illegal if he knew that she was trafficked.

…men like this know that ordinarily a 17 year old would never want to sleep with them, but their sense of entitlement lets them carry on regardless.

I don’t think this is an unreasonable belief at all if the man is question is rich, privileged and famous. Football and music star groupies still definitely exist. Just a couple of weeks ago a Spanish nobleman, the Duke of Arjona, married a woman he had been together with since she was 18 and he 52. Andrew, the feted “handsome” and “hero” prince, would have had women throwing themselves at him his whole life. The fact that it never occurred to him to ask if this young girl was genuinely interested in him seems entirely believable to me - I can’t imagine it would ever occur to him to consider anyone else’s perspective…and he clearly saw himself as a prize….

(a prize something else these days 🤣)

Just to note - you absolutely cannot rely on Chat gpt for legal research! It’s often completely wrong. (I don’t know the correct answer myself, I’d need to research it, but the idea that AI would be right on this is hopeless).

Technically, we do not know if Andrew actually had sex with Ms Guiffre. He denied it. She claims (i think) 3 times.
The main evidence that they met is the photograph, but when Andrew's legal team asked for the original, Ms Guiffre's legal team could not produce it.
They then came to an agreement or settlement. Rumoured to be as much as 12 million, but other sources say a lot less.
Andrew says he wanted to go to court, but was pressured to settle from other royals, it being the Jubilee year.
Technically, it is hard to prove a negative.
However, I'm inclined to believe Ms Guiffre, but I can't see what was illegal, if he did not know she was trafficked. It may seem hard now, but Andrew was considered good looking (many years ago), and many girls would have thrown themselves at him, so there was really no reason to think she was unwilling.

I'm a similar age to her. At that time, the culture was more that males took what they could get and there was bizarre peer pressure for them to do so. Consent was in a different place. But it was always obvious that was wrong. Especially when there was an abuse of power.

You are right Chat Gpt can be wrong.
Try this instead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Giuffre_v._Prince_Andrew

She actually brought the case against Prince Andrew in the USA where it is also illegal to have sex with a trafficked person. She did this under the New York Child Victims Act.

and many girls would have thrown themselves at him, so there was really no reason to think she was unwilling

^^ I really must object to this!

Trafficked girls, by definition, cannot consent!

Some of the groomed young girls in Rotherham and Rochdale were “willing” because they mistook exploitation for love and attention but that doesn’t mean that what the perpetrators did was right! Or any less of a crime!

She was not in a position to consent. I find it very hard to believe that he did not know that she was not in a position to consent. Sex without consent is rape. And rape was illegal at the time.

As stated previously I really dislike this line of thought because the victim’s willingness has nothing whatsoever to do with it! Young vulnerable people by definition, especially if they are from vulnerable backgrounds, or had been previously abused like Giuffre, often act in inappropriate and unwise ways. It’s up to adults not to take advantage of that.

@LeavesOnTrees How can Andrew be 'Brought to justice' if he's committed no crime? The criminals are Epstein and Maxwell and I doubt that they would have told their ' clients/friends' call them what you will, that the girls were trafficked.

Andrew is an arrogant fool but why is it only him that is being castigated are the other 'big names' on the flight logs not being investigated?

Just to add, Giuffre in her book states that Epstein mentioned he knew which way her brother came home from school when she hesitated over coming to work for Epstein ft.

So although she was paid well and provided with expensive clothes it was clear she had to obey when Epstein pimped her out to people he wanted to impress. The inference was clear that her brother would be hurt otherwise. That is about as far from consent as you can get!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/15/prince-andrew-virginia-giuffre-abuse-epstein-maxwell

It seems that VG was abused by various men all her life. I’m not sure the term/activity ‘trafficked’ was well known when Prince Andrew was moving in Epstein’s circle. I can imagine PA being arrogant and unaware enough to think that the girls were sleeping with him willingly. I think he’s a repulsive piece of work but I’m not sure he did anything illegal. Did any of the other men involved - not sure? It’s a fact of life that a lot of men would be happy to have sex with young girls if they could.
The irony, amongst other things, of it all is that the only person jailed is a woman.

Well we don't know if he has committed a crime or not as he has never been charged and he settled the case in the US.

The crime would be having sex with a trafficked person.
This is illegal, both in the USA and the UK.
He didn't need to do the actual trafficking.
Remember both Epstein and Maxwell WERE charged with trafficking, so it would be reasonable to believe Virginia when she says she was also trafficked.

Andrew stayed friends with Epstein AFTER Epstein had been convicted.
After the infamous photo of him with Virginia came out, he wrote to Epstein saying they were in it together.

Surely if the photo was fake, wouldn't he write something like 'I can't believe she's released a fake photo' or something along those lines.

Tell us you know nothing about sexual violence without telling us you know nothing about sexual violence… 🙄

It's a good question as to why only Andrew has been put under the spotlight. It's easy for the US to use a British Prince to deflect from all the other men involved.

I hope it all comes out one day.

I’ve always wondered why Virginia was the only one to come forward to claim she was pimped out to Andrew. Surely there were others? Why haven’t they come forward?

This is indeed a very good question. Andrew is a distraction, a sacrifice if you like.

No one has any proof he has done anything illegal. Being a big sleaze is not in itself a crime. His position in the RF and English public life and the prevailing culture at the time was such that he should not have been shagging young girls at orgies. Yuk. He was willing to take public money 'representing the crown' but he was unwilling to behave in a manner befitting of his position. He thought he could get his knob in and everyone else be none the wiser.

Hrs not in a position to sell his other sleazy high profile mates down the river. He's a known liar so if he says "yeah Donald Trump was at these orgies and Jeff told me all about the young trafficked girls he shagged" a) he would not be believed, Donnie would cry fake news and b) he might soon find himself meeting an untimely demise.

No it was not. Paying for sexual services of a child aged 16 or 17 and having sex with a traficked woman or child aged 16 or 17 only became offences in 2003 with the passing of the Sexual Offences Act.

40+ year old bloke having sexual with a 17 year old very wrong, even if she wasn't trafficked

For those mentioning how happy she looked in the photo with Andrew, I would point out that she said she wanted a photo for her Mum to see she’d met a real live prince, and that it was taken before the trip to Tramps. She possibly was happy, as maybe at that time she didn’t realise what she was going to have to have sex with Andrew. It was on the way back from Tramps that Maxwell told her she was to “do what you do for Jeffrey”.

He was 41 years old at the time and she was 17

Was ‘abuse of power’ particularly well known back then? I don’t think it was mentioned in my teacher safeguarding, which was obviously less thorough then than now.

I’d like to repeat that no one has said she consented- we agree she couldn’t- just that Andrew likely wouldn’t have known her ‘consent’ was coerced.

I hope the RF- and other people in positions of power and influence like politicians- are getting better education on grooming. It’s glaring obvious in cases like Saville, Epstein, numerous others, that ‘useful idiots’ were groomed into providing a veneer of respectability to predatory men.

Repeatedly. Where are the advisors? Pointing out the flattery and generosity come at a price.

The reality is that prior to 2003 the law surrounding sexual offences was a huge mess with massive loopholes in it. For example British men would regularly travel to places like the Philippines and to rape small children and there was absolutely nothing the British authorities could do about it.

The chances of Prince Andrew being charged with an offence committed prior to 2003 are zero.

36 yr old Chris Evans married 18yr old Billie Piper around that time. Chris Moyles ( ?) offered to take Charlotte Church’s virginity when she turned 16. Same era.

Yes both gross

and not members of the royal family