As Never the second release ...

[onehorserace]

Wine, apricot spread and honey. I think we've had all the suggestions for names already ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14832085/amp/Meghan-Markle-new-products-rose-wine-apricot-spread.html

Some women do struggle, it's true. Where Meghan was fortunate is that then, and now, she and Harry can afford to employ nannies.
I have no idea about Doria's experience or choices, but perhaps they couldn't afford support like that. Who knows.

Meghan is in a continual state of competition, mainly with herself but others do get dragged in. Catherine was a sitting duck once Meghan decided she could elevate the royal family. Once the message is decided upon she becomes obsessed with its delivery, from fairy liquid to sprinkles the same pattern emerges. Every podcast, every interview the most authentic, most humble, greatest mother, loyalist friend, best hostess, hardest worker. This need for competition is not limited to positives as even the negatives become a competition with the most abused by the paparazzi claims. It's why she struggles when things go wrong, how can people not see how amazing Meghan is. This is often mirrored by supporters anyone who is not in awe with Meghan are haters, jealous, deranged and racists. When realistically she is fascinating to watch. A real life soap opera just not in the delivery that is intended.

@Vespanest the accusations of "racism" are regular and frequent. It's an easy accusation to make. There is little substantiation for this. Every time, the evidence rolled out is the stupid "Straight out of Compton" headline and Danny Baker's offensive sm post. Both of which were challenged and criticised then and now.
I just think their actions are getting harder to defend, so it's something to reach for.

I’m just fascinated to know where this need to compete originates. It doesn’t seem to come from her parents who I don’t think pushed her in any way. It’s so bizarre. She has so little awareness of others and no empathy.

My impression from what M has said is that she led this childhood with one or another parent. Her father already had another family. Her mother seems to have been absent for a chunk of time. Both spoke to her about being special and wonderful maybe in an attempt to make up for the lack of a united family life or because they were feeling guilty or they were even in competition trying to be best parent . She's oozed about how special she was told she was.

I think she was over indulged by her father, she went to good schools and although well off was not the wealthiest, I think it stems from there. At home she was the princess but not so in school.

I really urge people to read the transcript of the interview with Oprah Winfrey. It’s easy to Google. In fact someone should print it out, laminate it and put it on Charles’s desk.

Meghan Markle made race an issue. She deliberately introduced the idea that Archie was being treated “differently” and led OW to make the link between that and the colour of his skin. She was deliberately misleading about the granting of a title and the link to security, referring to the George V convention but not making it clear that Archie was being treated entirely consistently with protocol.

This, and the bullying, are the things that matter and should never be forgotten.

Some excellent posts here. Meghan’s behaviour should not be forgotten or Harry’s enabling of said behaviour.

Basically spoilt. I hope she isn’t making the same mistake with her own daughter because it already seems like she’s singling Lilly out to be the specialists the expense of Archie.

It’s rooted in insecurity and I think pps are right to suggest that, while being sent to smart schools might have been nice - she probably encountered fellow students who made her feel not quite good enough. There’ll always be someone richer, cleverer or prettier.

But frankly, there’s a more obvious reason why Meghan is such a difficult woman. She’s fallen out with her family, not because she’s different from them, but because she’s like them! They’re a weird, vindictive and dysfunctional lot. I’m afraid I’m sceptical about the sainted Doria too - I think both she and Thomas must take responsibility for creating such a piece of work as Meghan.

Harry was a diasater for any unity within the royal family when introducing Meghan. If you believe your partner is the most amazing person in the world that is good but believing everyone else feels the same is dumb. This can be said even more so when the direct comparison is your brothers wife. Harry could believe all he wanted that Meghan was a better royal than all of them. But sniping at the Queen with the service is universal is again dumb. you keep your feelings private you do not announce it to the world, especially when your feelings as that is what they are and subjective, but Harry does not a problem with subjective feelings not being objective facts.

Motherhood definitely doesn’t come naturally to some women and I definitely wouldn’t judge them for it. M is fortunate that she can hire the very best help.

Yes indeed

You're absolutely right. I wouldn't judge either.

He saw her as the ultimate prize that he had won and expected everyone to applaud him for it.

There can be no harmony with Meghan as everything is a competition. She is always On, always performing, always masking.

Let's not forget her dad won the lotto and that paid for the private school. Meghan would have been one of the less well off attendees, less travelled, no ponies etc. Just enough to pay for the school. Afterschool she hung around the low brow (hyper objectified) set of married with children.

Archibald Harrison, is the Archy-archetype and Harry s son. Lillibet Diana is the princess, where Meghan has personally failed, she can work on Lilly to be the American Princess. The strategising continues.

It's a pity they couldn't maintain dignity, if they had, they could be making hygge jam and tea with flower petals within the comfort of the Royal Machine. But Meghan can only cope in Meghanland, she doesn't fit into any other institution.

(Despite the above, the Susexes are being more responsible than each set of their own parents were, at a similar stage in their lives.)

Doria was a very young black woman, uneducated, broke and unskilled when she met the much older, highly successful, comparatively wealthy TM. He had two horrific teens who had just come to live with him from the other side of the US whilst he worked very long hours. I suspect Doria was targeted to be ‘the help’ - SM and TMj openly admit they called her ‘the maid’. She would have been lonely, overlooked and dismissed in that middle class white neighbourhood - I believe that people thought she was ‘the nanny’. The situation was bad enough that she she left when MM was just two years old. I suspect Doria was depressed and isolated so that MM’s first few critical years of emotional development were compromised.

I also think Doria went through something seismic - addiction? MH breakdown? as the yoga teacher route and retraining in later life as a social worker has classic recovery and ‘wounded healer’ vibes. Not a criticism of Doria just an observation and inkling having trod that path myself.

Very good points, @Kweenbeee . 👏

That doesn’t fit with what has been said about Doria by friends though. She seems to have always been a strong person, able to speak up for herself, self assured.

She gives the impression of being able to manage MM and resist control by her.

Agree with this.

I haven’t seen or read anything about who her friends are or any romantic relationships. My perception of her now is a woman of calm and strength evidenced by her achievements in later life. I do think that there was a significant power imbalance in her early marriage when she was very young. I also think that she would be exasperated by the emotional chaos H&M create around themselves as she appears to be very grounded.

Has MM ever referred to Doria’s mothering style or her upbringing by Doria. I have seen MM is proud of her as a hippie, yoga teacher, marathon runner, career changer in later life etc.

Her actual jobs have been shrouded in mystery too. She is supposed to run an elderly care facility which has no staff and no financial records. She is supposed to have been a travel agent at one time too . I also read that she ran a shop. It is really strange how little is known about her in this age of being able to find out anything about anyone fairly easily.
I read that she was a member of a religious cult for years and M attended their church. Yet the media have never picked that up.Her parents were married within that organisation.

Yet the media have never picked that up.

Tom Bower knows something. He has dropped hints. I assume there are (legal?) reasons he can't publish what he knows, and the same applies to other media.

Doria was a very young black woman, uneducated, broke and unskilled when she met the much older, highly successful, comparatively wealthy TM. He had two horrific teens who had just come to live with him from the other side of the US whilst he worked very long hours. I suspect Doria was targeted to be ‘the help’ - SM and TMj openly admit they called her ‘the maid’. She would have been lonely, overlooked and dismissed in that middle class white neighbourhood - I believe that people thought she was ‘the nanny’.

I'm absolutely not minimising how difficult it must have been for Doria, Kweenbee. I think you're spot on about the way she was treated by Thomas's two older children - horrible.

I think Doria is a tough person now, though - and good for her. But this will have had an influence on Meghan. She told her 'Don't give away the milk for free!'. I do get the impression, however, that Doria will not have been a force for harmony or reconciliation where Harry's family was concerned. Who knows? Possibly she sat them down and asked them to consider what they were doing. But I don't get those vibes - I think Doria was very supportive of all they did, including the book, the documentary and the interview - after all, she took part in the Netflix doc. So while I sympathise with her predicament within the Markle clan and in Californian society at that time, I don't think of her as the wise old owl she's sometimes painted. I think there's bitterness and resentment there, which may have influenced Meghan in the past, and both M & H more recently.

Really good points @Kweenbeee and a perspective I hasn’t thought about