As Never the second release ...

[onehorserace]

Wine, apricot spread and honey. I think we've had all the suggestions for names already ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14832085/amp/Meghan-Markle-new-products-rose-wine-apricot-spread.html

I think Harry makes a mistake comparing Diana to Meghan. Diana was a complex person it would seem , as many of us are. Unfortunately because she died so young there was a great aura ( for want of a better word) around her which may not have lasted if she were still alive today. (I'm not saying it wouldn't and yes she did seem to be pursuing some very philanthropic activities. ). But she was a different kettle of fish to Meghan. When Diana first went on tours , yes she got the attention and it would appear C didn't always like it. But for H to say - the RF couldn't see M was better at such things than the rest of the RF is a stretch. I bet none of them have been overheard saying they can't believe they are not being paid for this. (as if beautiful housing , massive dress allowance , security whilst working , never having to worry about bills etc ie complete financial security whilst being a member of the WRF doesn't count as the financial upside). I think even Diana's birth family didn't agree Meghan was like Diana. But ( & I can see why , H idealises Diana & he does M but from what I see they were to very different people.

Another insider speaks…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-14841829/Prince-Archie-Princess-Lilibet-role-william-king.html

It took twenty years to improve Camilla's standing in the public eye but she didn't actually do that much wrong in the first place. She didn't cheat on her husband she reconnected with the love of her life once his wife started cheating and his marriage failed. Many, many ,many of us are on second marriages. Diana did a great number on Camilla and we, the British public, in the main bought into it hook line and sinker. Meghan on the other hand has committed many grievious acts by herself. The lies, faux self pity, camera hogging utter nastiness she's displayed can't be softened by time. There is no rehabilitation for her with the mass of the UK public ever. The curtsey piss take alone will always live on. Let alone the constant attacks on Catherine. We see her.

I can potentially see H returning to the UK post divorce with maybe a marginal role, but the whole family?

No. It's one of the few things upon which I have disagreed with @GiveMeSpanakopita. I even wonder if she is doing some informal stakeholder analysis ...

She was also not approved of at the time of her death. Tabloid fodder, yes, her image sold a lot of papers, but she was not popular.
Her death brought about a baffling sainthood and collective mourning, as half the nation seemed to lose it's collective mind. It was the point at which the British stiff upper lip beat a hasty retreat, and never came back.
It was a very strange time.

As an aside William looks great in that picture, the beard and a bit of a tan really suit him.

While I do agree with your parallels between Diana's and H's behaviors, IMHO, the situation the RF is in from a PR standpoint is different with a dead Diana versus a living H.

Diana's reckless behavior was in the process of damaging her reputation, but her sudden death stopped all negative UK headlines. A newspaper had to recall its "Sex-crazed Diana" newspapers the day Diana died. Without Diana around to destroy her own reputation, combined with Mohammed Al-Fayed's and Charles Spencer's accusations (despite Al Fayed's driver and security failing Diana and Charles Spencer having introduced Bashir to Diana which ultimately resulted in Diana rejecting RF security), the RF were in an impossible situation.

By contrast, H's reckless behavior has damaged and is continuing to damage his reputation, generating constant negative headlines in the UK. H&M's reputation is toast in the UK. And H&M's target USA market has not been backward in presenting its increasingly negative view of H&M:
-"Disaster tourists" from a celebrity

-"F*ing grifters" from employer Spotify
-"No talent at all" from a talent agency head
-"Dictator in heels" from Vanity Fair.
-"Dumb prince and his stupid wife" from South Park.

IMHO, all the RF needs to do is continue to grey rock H.

The Mail article upthread (or maybe one I clicked to from it, about a video of Lili with a jellycat posted after William said his children loved them 🙄)… Anyway.. it reminded me that when the news of the PoW’s cancer was released, I THINK the first thing that came out of Montecito was a story about how unbelievable it was that H+M found out at the same time as everyone else. Basically, “poor us, aren’t the royals just such mean bullies”. Presumably they were expecting public outrage on their behalf, but in fact anyone who gave even the tiniest shit thought it a sensible decision. And then came the official statement expressing concern whilst also referring to her as Kate. So firstly making it all about them, centring their victimhood, and then taking the opportunity to disrespect publicly a woman with three young children who had just been diagnosed with cancer. What lovely people.

It took twenty years to improve Camilla's standing in the public eye but she didn't actually do that much wrong in the first place.

And Camilla's public conduct has always been impeccable. She has never pushed herself forward or sought attention or given interviews in which she has told lies or slagged people off. And she and APB apparently remain on excellent terms and don't dish dirt on each other.

Her death brought about a baffling sainthood and collective mourning, as half the nation seemed to lose it's collective mind.

Whipped up to some extent by one T. Blair, with his 'She was - the People's Princess' blathering.

I agree. It will just never ever happen. Harry might be given a house in the UK on condition he shuts up for life, but only if he divorces. There will never be a public role for him or his children, ever.

I agree. I think that they also grey-rocked Diana but she must have had much more necessary access/exposure to the machinery of the BRF as she was raising the next monarch. PH is inconsequential.

They never grey rocked Diana
She remained in contact with QEII and Philip until she died. She and Charles began to have a more positive relationship and latterly he would call on her, they seemed to manage a rapprochement.

The only way Harry will ever be brought back into the family under William’s watch is if he positively grovelled to Catherine for what they unleashed on her. It will never happen.

He can’t be excluded from his own father’s funeral - which I sincerely hope will be a long time coming - but in light of the last year or so, William will make sure that Catherine is protected from undue stress. If Harry thinks he had a frosty reception last time, he won’t know what’s hit him.

For Charles he cannot win, if Harry was to become unwell or fall from grace then yes there would be finger pointing but I'd say more so if Charles allowed Harry access and the Wales's especially Cathrine and Charlotte became tabloid fodder with The People mag having negative exclusives from "sources" every time "as ever" had a promo to do. Competitive egotistical people become the same with their children. It's already happened, imagine what it would be like with access.

I think this was strategic as obviously they needed her on-side more as she was raising the future king - and a rapprochement was necesary for the survival of the monarchy etc. PH and his DCs are inconsequential. I think they grey rocked her media antics.

Anne is the shining example of successful sparedom (although Andrew is really the spare and he's a disaster). As well as working very hard, Anne seems to have created an uppercrust commune at Gatcombe Park - her two children and their current and ex spouses, her five grandchildren, her former husband and his second wife and child, horses, equestrian event, party barn. Brilliant.

@KweenBee I'm not sure Diana had a big hand in raising W. He was at boarding school and spent a lot of time at the royal residences. It wasn't some 50/50 custody arrangement. I believe he was close to the QM.

I don’t think H ( and M) have ever accepted that they are of little importance . The fact that Harry thinks his DC can choose whether or not they are working Royals is breathtaking. His ignorance and arrogance is astounding.

He just doesn’t seem to understand the depth of the damage he’s caused .

No I think he has absolutely no idea what he’s done. None at all. I think his bbc interview showed that. He has no idea that he has totally removed himself from his bubble and there is no way back in.

i imagine he is in the middle of a massive breakdown tbh. In those photos from the Beyoncé concert he looks puffed up and awful.

I feel very very sorry for those children.

Yes - he hasn't fully realized that Archie and Lilibet - at best - would be Beatrice and Eugenie level. Probably lower status than that given that they won't grow up in Britain or in the RF traditions. Harry seems to know little about royal history and Meghan had no interest in any of it at all.

There’s no doubt she adored her children but the amount of time she actually spent with them, particularly post separation, is astonishing. They were at boarding school and then divided their time between two parents. She was only hanging out with Dodi because she had little else to do as the children were at Balmoral. It’s really quite sad.

She is certainly interested in the titles !

Even worse - Diana had a holiday in the US planned in late August with her friend Lana Marks. But Lana’s father unexpectedly died and so that holiday was cancelled, and then Dodi suggested that they could go back to the Al Fayed yacht since she was unexpectedly free…

It was a very strange time. I absolutely don't believe she was bumped off, however, my very first fleeting thought that day when the news was announced that she'd died was 'wow, they got rid of her' and that was because she'd been absolutely spiraling in the months before she died.

Doing crazy public stunts and the tabloids were out of control with the stories on her. There were a lot of very critical opinion pieces and articles and Diana seems to have been escalating the behaviour the worse the press got.

It felt unsustainable. I think you had to be a certain age (20s+ to be reading a cross selection of newspapers on a daily basis) and in the UK to fully appreciate what the atmosphere was like.