As Never the second release ...

[onehorserace]

Wine, apricot spread and honey. I think we've had all the suggestions for names already ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14832085/amp/Meghan-Markle-new-products-rose-wine-apricot-spread.html

My take (and I haven't watched all of them) on the interviews, is one of disdain from the guests, especially JKL , some of her expressions were almost mocking, the way you might fake a closed mouth smile when talking to someone you know is talking rubbish.

A PP said that it's not only what Harry might repeat from intimate RF conversations, but also what he might report erroneously that was never actually said. A blabbermouth can never be trusted not to invent and embroider.

Quite. And can you imagine how the press would hound him and even try to provoke him into disclosing these things? It's always been a principle within the RF that you don't tell tales out of school, but once someone's broken the rule...and especially if they're angry, needy and insecure...and impecunious...It would be like the White Queen, Edmund and the Turkish Delight all over again.

Some people might say that, if the RF say dodgy things, then we should know and it serves them right to be exposed. But who hasn't said something within their close family that they'd like kept secret? Very few people can honestly say they've never been a bit critical, angry or even bitchy about friends/colleagues/family members in private. The point about the RF is that they have a public role, an international role, in diplomacy and in relation to government. If their reputation is trashed, it affects the country as a whole. There really was a backlash internationally after H & M's revelations - during the time when they were swallowed uncritically whole. And for some countries, H & M's version is still believed. For me, that's why their behaviour is not a trivial matter and history shows us that terrible things can start with an apparently trivial event.

Sounds a more likely scenario than Brooke requesting the removal, shame the host felt she had to capitulate, yet another form of their bullying if true.

PR cannot trump national security.

Russia is essentially at cyberwar with NATO from cutting undersea cables in the Baltic to cyberwarfare against various countries. There is open warfare in Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa. India and Pakistan have an uneasy truce after the recent round of hostilities. China is eyeing Taiwan. North Korea is eyeing South Korea.

Having a reckless blabbermouth like H anywhere near KC3 or W is simply not feasible.

UK warning: Russia’s ‘aggressive’ cyber warfare is threat to NATO

This is something that fascinates me,

Firstly, what do H & M do or have that inspires fans.

Secondly, why are the fans such ardent fans? There don't seem to be any shades of grey, they seemingly can do no wrong in the eyes of the fans. I see it on here sometimes - people really going to quite extreme lengths to explain or justify whatever the most recent thing is.

Thirdly, is there anything, anything at all, that H & M could do that would alienate these fans?

I just don't understand!

The man is so unstable mentally I can’t see him ever having any kind of public profile within the RF. At most, in the future, the King will probably accept him back as his son but on a very cautious footing. I don’t think William and Catherine will have anything to do with him, he is far too unpredictable and blatantly untrustworthy around them and their children. He’s just going to be that relative who’s metaphorically kept in an attic and spoken about in hushed tones, and the kids’ strange Uncle Harry who we’ve been told not to disturb. (I’ve probably read too many Bronte books :)).

He’s likely to become more unstable too. Especially if he continues to smoke weed.

I agree that it’s highly unlikely that they will be back in the royal family. But I do wonder what will happen when the King eventually passes and there needs to be a funeral and coronation. It was awkward enough when QEII passed away and that was before Spare and the NF documentary.

Me neither @Wundy it’s utterly baffling, in some cases I think it is faux republican posters who feel that H&M are sticking it to the royal family on their behalf, any enemy of the royal family is their friend, despite the Duke and Duchess wanting to be more royal than all of them put together. There was one ‘republican’ poster who is a huge fan of H&M who thought it dreadful that Harry wasn’t given more money and royal status than he already had to soften the blow that he wasn’t going to be King, I kid you not.

The body language of MM to some of the things Emma Grede was saying is very interesting. I don't think she was happy. I think Emma was quite crafty with her questions. Just enough sugar to not come across as hostile. I think all these women know MM is a charlatan. But they have to play the game. Interesting how much the Oprah connection is mentioned.

😍😍😍

I think all the other Spares, who have been booted out of dysfunctional families, where the slightly boring heir is Lionised, might feel some sympathy for Harry.

I know, move on, but he did have a lot of childhood trauma, there was empathy for him. The whole system is trauma inducing. Other victims of unfairness and trauma possibly are in his fan base. (yes I know William also suffered trauma, and sought out treatment and healing, perhaps dealt with it better, but William always knew he would be King, his life path was more secure. Harry always knew he would be edged out, despite being part of the dynamic duo).

I can quite easily believe that, having seen some of the bonkers excuses/justifications!

With all that trauma he still decided to rank his own children. Harry loves the hierarchy, he just doesn't like Williams ranking.

Being the Spare can be an absolute triumph in the hands of the right character. All of the perks, all of the prestige, a large degree of personal freedom to pursue one's own goals, none of the burden on being head of state until you die. Look at Anne. She's a national treasure and has done a lot in her life in her own right. Harry simply lacks the character to make a good job of the fantastic hand he had been dealt in life. The man who could make a sow's ear out of a silk purse.

And they've certainly been proven right in wanting no connection with the Al Fayeds. It really does astonish me that people still think it's more likely that Prince Philip arranged to have Diana killed than accepting that her death was the result of her, unwittingly, associating with a shady businessman whose organisation was entirely questionable.

I'm a firm believer that while she might have had some attraction to Dodi (and the perks of the al Fayed lifestyle) she was basically trying to make Hasnat Kahn jealous. I don't think that would have worked had she lived but she would eventually have moved on.

The last few (very sad) moments of footage from the Ritz don't show someone who is comfortable let alone happy, IMO.

Some people might say that, if the RF say dodgy things, then we should know and it serves them right to be exposed

Yes, and as long as it relates to their public role I'm one of them, @CoffeeCantata - but I'm not interested in the accounts of someone who's a proven liar, and who attempts to cover this up with ridiculous comments about his "curated memories" being as valid as objective truth

I'm with you there!

I'm just shocked at the number of people who give any credence to Harry and Meghan.Their ulterior motive was always so blatantly obvious but some people seem to have lost their critical faculties!

I agree! Yes - she seems very cagey as they wait for the car and his arm creeps round her waist. Ugh.

He was such a sleaze-bag...I remember wondering what on earth she saw in him - she wasn't short of money. I'm sure the influence of Mohammed Fayed, manipulating and pushing them together, was a factor.

IMHO, people overlook the press conference with Dodi's rejected fiancée (Kelly) and her lawyer Gloria Allred immediately before Diana's tragic death in a car accident.

If Diana had returned to London, she would likely have been dragged into Dodi's mess by the aggressive Gloria and the tabloids (both UK and USA) would have covered Diana's past indiscretions with great relish to sell their papers. I doubt a living Diana's reputation would have survived such an onslaught wholly intact.

Even worse, her teenage boys would have faced the embarrassment of their mom's love life being the hot topic of conversation, potentially creating friction in Diana's relationship with both children.

Diana died before she aged significantly, in a sudden manner, fairly close to her divorce where she was perceived to be the victim and while she was still perceived as "royal". IMHO it is difficult to draw parallels to her second son's situation.

Didn't Dodi allegedly have his (real) girlfriend tucked away on a yacht nearby at some point? I can't imagine what she thought when she was dragged around the Villa Windsor that afternoon. All down to Mohammed al F and his ambitions I think.

ETA as posted too soon. She'd never have married him. Hasnat Khan probably, if he hadn't rejected the whole life.

I think a chunk of it for H&M fans is that the Daily Mail and the likes of Piers Morgan are so against them. Lots of people can’t accept any kind of nuance and just see white newspaper journalists vs a woman of colour and think the whole thing is motivated by racism and misogyny. And to be fair the right wing press are obsessed with them, or at least their readership are. And I think they presume that all critics are the same. And then they can’t admit they’re wrong when those journalists have shown they actually may have been right about them in some cases.

Not sure.

I think both have a level of emotional volatility and traits of histrionic personality disorder (from their respective traumatic and dysfunctional childhoods).

BP upkept PDs saintly image whilst in the RF despite her having a number of affairs the first of which before PH was even two years old.

She was brittle, obsessive, fell out with many of her friends and family, pushed boundaries with stalking behaviour and had no concerns for the devastation caused to women and children in the relationships she persued with married men.

She spoke out indirectly via authors, had the tabloids on speed dial to leak and went full hypocrital revenge mode with the interview.

Her line 'there are 3 of us in this marriage' was disingenous - there were at least 5 due to her extramarital exploits.

She didnt stop for a moment to consider to hurt to her teenage boys of disclosing the sex life of their Dad on the global stage.

She did a lot of damage personaly and instituationally.