Times article today

[MrsLeonFarrell]

This is a blatant being request for an archive link for The Times article about Catherine and Meghan called an insiders view.

Can anyone help?

I think if you tell someone you genuinely like that you don't want to hug, they are open to receiving that message and won't be offended.

But if you tell a new acquaintance who is emotionally vulnerable in some way (maybe Meghan has abandonment or an insecure attachment style?) they might be, if not offended, embarrassed that somebody had had to say that they didn't want to be hugged. That's how I'd feel but I think Meghan is primed to see rejection (that appears to be what she triggered in Harry who seemed less sensitive about his 'spare' status prior to meeting her).

I agree that huggers are not necessarily nicer people than those who don't want to go in for a hug all the time. I struggle with my weight and don't like to hug because I feel enormous in comparison to the other person (even though most of this is in my head, it's not rational, but it's still how I feel in the moment). So if Meghan swept in for a hug with me, I'd want to take a step back. And it would have nothing to do with her and everything to do with me. But I'm not an unkind person.

Look at the difference between Queen Mary of Denmark, formerly plain old Mary Donsldson from Australia the huge amount of effort she went to, to endear herself to the Danish people, learning the language, military training etc. Meghan was offered so much help and assistance from the Palace, Sophie as a Mentor, the Queen’s personal equerry to assist her and she refused it all, couldn’t even be bothered to flick through a folder prepared for her either. It baffles me why people feel so much sympathy for her.

Princess Mary’s transformation from Aussie Mary Donaldson to the new Queen of Denmark included beauty treatments, intensive language lessons, etiquette classes and even military training.

Soon after meeting Prince Frederik at the Slip Inn pub in 2000, Donaldson opted to fork out her own money for a six-week deportment course in Sydney and paid a style consultant to help her look the part of a future royal.
The training included how to relate to other people, how to walk into a room, how to socialise and how to perform in front of the camera.

In 2008, the Australian-born royal joined the Danish Home Guard and was later promoted to First Lieutenant in September 2015. The military training included learning how to use a weapon, sleeping outdoors in a bivouac as well as assisting the police in search and rescue operations and knowledge about first aid. After training, the new Queen became a sergeant in the Home Guard 2009, lieutenant in the Home Guard 2009, first lieutenant in the Home Guard 2015, captain in the Home Guard in 2019 and honorary major in the Home Guard in 2023.

While Mary’s military training undoubtedly affirmed her allegiance to the Danes, it was the royal’s remarkable effort to learn Danish which first helped endear her to the country.

https://www.skynews.com.au/lifestyle/celebrity-life/action-royal-princess-mary-underwent-military-training-in-preparation-of-becoming-queen-of-denmark/news-story/20b95bf1950271e9678f6ba445fbd097

Goodness that's a lot. All Catherine did was listen to advice and learn how to operate within the institution.

Yes yes but I think it's disingenuous to claim not to be a hugger all the while being photographed and filmed again and again hugging people. Well wishers, cancer survivors, random women in the crowd, workers in various organisations, children. Constantly hugging hugging hugging but apparently doesn't like hugging and doesn't hug 🫤

Maybe Meghan thought she was the next Grace Kelly - there's a few major differences though. She was a box office actress and she did adapt to the rigours of a very different Royal life.

Yes Mary is incredibly impressive and had more to assimilate than Catherine who obviously did no military training and she didn’t have to learn a foreign language fluently, though I actually think if you bear the title of Wales they really should at least learn the basics and if I was them I would make sure George was taking lessons from an early age, maybe they are? but I digress, Meghan really didn’t have a huge task ahead of her, no military training, no new language to master and all the support was handed to her on a plate and she said no. Imagine joining any family firm and taking on a senior role within it but then refuse all the training, mentoring and support offered to you and then you fail in that role, I wouldn’t feel any sympathy for that person either, I would think what did you expect you fool.

The extract of the book linked above seems to be fair to both sides. I hope Harry and M can be happy but I wish they would let both grandfathers see the children whilst the grandfathers are still alive.

This hugging debate has got me thinking. I would not describe myself as a hugger or not a hugger. That's because three things have always seemed quite obvious to me. It's the feeling you have about a person as an individual that should determine whether you hugger or not. In practice, that means I have hugged people I don't know well and wouldn't dream of hugging others I do know well. Then there's the question of context. For example, I have happily exchanged a hug with someone I have only just met because we have mutual friends and there is recognition that all the relationships are strong. Third, there's a big difference between clamping someone to you down the whole length of their body and a brief clasp during a kiss or kisses on the cheek.

Kate really does sum up how coming from a close and stable family is a benefit.
I also think it’s a very good thing she and William have three, not two children - having just an heir and a spare is an awful combo.

@IdaGlossop and the back rubbing urrghhh! Can do a hug but that's a step too far!

She probably could not hear what Diana was saying over the noise of her spinning

I know Diana could be a bit woo at times but she also seemed to be able to mock herself and I do wonder what on earth she'd have made of some of these shenanigans, possibly especially the singing seals.

I do think that these days part of the job sometimes for royals is to accept hugs from the people they are meeting. They rarely initiate hugs, Catherine I remember did once but that was with her midwife at an event generally it seems that royals don't initiate hugs.

I think it is completely normal to have different behaviour at work and at home. Part of their work in these led formal days is accepting hugs but that doesn't mean they have to hug people they don't want to in their personal lives. Selective hugging is absolutely fine.

I think what makes me cringe about the boot pulling photo is that it's (apparently) an RPO who's doing it, not a groom or somebody where it might reasonably form part of their job description.

Imagine being an extremely highly trained police officer assigned to protect the lives of VIPs, and then being expected to literally get your hands dirty pulling their boots off for them, cleaning their sunglasses and fetching and carrying coffees etc. It just feels pretty disrespectful to me.

Have you read the article? I can’t see any bullying of Meghan, it’s quite even handed, William doesn’t come out of it brilliantly for example.

I don’t think that picture tells us anything other than Harry was wearing close fitting riding boots that needed someone else to heave them off. He could have asked anyone to help.

I need a welly boot to get my muckboots off. So I’m not seeing a problem with someone helping Harry.

@crankytoes Yes yes but I think it's disingenuous to claim not to be a hugger all the while being photographed and filmed again and again hugging people. Well wishers, cancer survivors, random women in the crowd, workers in various organisations, children. Constantly hugging hugging hugging but apparently doesn't like hugging and doesn't hug 🫤

Please can you point to where Catherine herself has ever claimed not to be a hugger and not to enjoy giving or receiving hugs? The only source for this claim, as far as aI can recall, is Meghan Markle, in her insinuations that Catherine is cold and prim as against her own warm and informal style.

As you have pointed out, there is plenty of evidence that Catherine is perfectly happy to give and receive hugs where appropriate/where the recipient is willing. Not wanting to hug a complete stranger (as in an unknown quantity to you), whom you've only just met in a situation where a hug is not warranted, is a completely different scenario to hugging a stranger who is there wishing you well or telling you about their troubles, and are therefore amenable to that level of physical contact.

We are human beings and we have instincts. Those of us who are tuned in to what the other person would like will initiate/return physical contact if it is welcomed by that person. Those of us who think only of our own comfort will initiate it and demand it regardless of what the other person wants. And most of us are somewhere in between, trying to read the room and hoping not to make a faux pas.

I would think it a bit odd if I was meeting a future SIL and they backed away from initiating a hug, when it's obvious that they hug random strangers as part of their 'job'. I would've expected Kate to initiate the hug as a warm thing to do and being an established part of the royal family, welcoming someone new into it. Just my opinion.

I hasten to add, I always test the water and would not expect anyone to receive a hug from me if I could sense it would not be welcome. It is almost always the other person hugging me, as opposed to the other way round. I don't hug where it's not wanted!

Forgot to add, some people are simply not comfortable hugging, and that's perfectly ok!

Was Catherine meeting Meghan as a future sister in law or as Harry's brand new girlfriend (for whom he'd allegedly dumped their friend, Cressida)?

Absolutely this. And anyone who feels the need to publicly proclaim themselves to be a hugger, and claim someone else is not, would seem to be doing it purely as a performance in my view. There may be lots of hugs in public, but where was the empathy when hearing a woman’s heart breaking story of the loss of her child on the Africa trip, for example? A hug loses its meaning when it’s just a greeting as well. It’s like the European habit of cheek kissing. It’s just a form of hello, but even more of an invasion of personal space 😆

Exactly this. When Harry introduced Meghan she was at that stage his new, long distance girlfriend. And I can well imagine that William and Kate are quite rightly wary of newcomers into their circle (with good reason since very soon afterwards stories about Meghan’s and Kate’s private interactions were appearing in a Toronto based internet gossip blog).

And the “Kate doesn’t hug people” definitely comes from the Sussexes.
“Friends of Meghan” of made a public statement in 2020 that Meghan didn’t want her children to grow up in an environment without hugs and laughter, like the Sussexes were leaving, and that all the Royals, especially Kate, were so uptight. This was then followed up in Spare - Kate was cold, formal, only lent her lipgloss grudgingly, and also by Omid Scobie - Kate is said by a “source” to be cold if she doesn’t like someone. Etc etc.

Yes, but Meghan bought a couch. On her own credit card.

So many are forgetting the piece of utter selflessness and self sacrifice.

Yeah, for all we know the guy offered to help. I don't have any issue with that.