Times article today

[MrsLeonFarrell]

This is a blatant being request for an archive link for The Times article about Catherine and Meghan called an insiders view.

Can anyone help?

To be fair, it also says Harry, Andrew and Edward are all easily irritated too in later paragraphs. It seems like the men all have a tendency to not be able to keep a lid on it. They don't mention Philip, maybe that's a different part of the book.

I need my space so I find the idea of having loads of people at my beck and call hanging around really over stimulating. Not an excuse, but never being truly alone must be really odd

'The paragraph you’ve quote from that was part of the article said William’s and Charles are ‘prone to tantrums’. Not me. I wouldn’t know.'

You, quite literally said 'so I’ve picked the bit I’ve believed of most of the royal family members generally.' and 'I just picked out the bit that confirms to me that the born royal members can be difficult. It’s one of my impressions of them'

and yet you now say you don't know .........

The article mentions Meghan’s behaviour, so you believe the article when it criticises Charles and William, but not so much the criticism of Meghan?

I said it is my impression of them. I wouldn’t know (for sure).

I was talking about my impression of the born-to-it royal family members. I didn’t give my opinion of Meghan or Kate; or the other not-born-royal women that went unnamed in the article.

My words are being picked to extract meaning from things I didn’t say.

I do get fed up with reading how Meghan must have thought the etiquette when becoming a member of the Royal family which represents our country is outdated and bizarre, all countries have their etiquette and cultural norms, yes even in America so it can’t have been completely alien to her that their may be rules, cultural norms and expectations that she may have to follow when becoming a working member of the Royal family and therefore representing our government and country on the world stage, if she didn’t realise then she must be really really stupid. Funny how it’s always the British cultural norms that are outdated and bizarre, no one says this about for example meeting the Pope or the Emperor of Japan.

economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/etiquette-one-has-to-follow-to-meet-world-leaders/the-etiquette-guide/slideshow/65128822.cms

Well said

You clearly drank the right wing / royal / Daily Mail kool-aid.

Were they dating before the first series of The Crown? If not Harry really should have got Meghan to watch it. You learn more about the courtiers and the curtseying to your own mother and the servants and lack of privacy. There was one scene where a servant comes in in the morning and Princess Margaret’s really hungover and you think God I’d absolutely hate that but if you’ve never known any different and you probably don’t see the servant as a person it doesn’t bother you.

This is how it goes on MN - roll with it. 😂

Cheers for that I'll just put aside my autism and the displeasure unwanted touch gives me. There are countless reasons why people do not want to be touched and they shouldn't have to give up on their boundaries to appease others

This is a popular kid's book in the US:

Don't Hug Doug: (He Doesn't Like It) https://a.co/d/2Z6dDeZ

I've often thought it should be a mandatory book in elementary schools.

Considering I’m on the RF boards a lot I’ve realised I’ve never watched at the time it’s on it apart from in lockdown when I did Christmas Day just for us. I always record and watch later. None of my family would ever think of watching it.

Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries. I’ll hug who i want not someone who may make me feel uncomfortable. Just how rude of that person.

So you think everyone should just accept being touched by another person even if they don't want to be? Sheeeesh.

Or the Hollywood Reporter, Vanity Fair nice cup of coffee? Why do supporters always bring up the rw/Daily mail trope - the US media have had plenty to say about the pair. Although you probs think the UK royal family control the US media 😂

Awww I love this article. It seems well sourced and full of so much juicy gossip!

The bit about William and the piggyback made me kind of emotional I admit. I'm so happy that William has Kate. She's so good for him. She really is a national treasure.

Hugging people you don't know well, when their body language says no, isn't a friendly move - it's an act of dominance.

People who make a virtue of 'speaking their mind' are often deeply lacking in empathy and ability to read the room and understand that one's needs do not take precedence over everyone else's.

Effective communication is a two-way street. You need to be in Receive Mode as well as Broadcast Mode. Aggressive huggers and no filter types are always in Broadcast Mode. It is deeply narcissistic.

I thought the left wing was all about believing victims?

As pp said, the victims of MM's bullying spoke to the liberal, reputable US press. The other main reporter on her bullying is Valentine Low in his book, Courtiers. He was threatened with legal action. It never materialised. And then there's Harry's own book, Spare, where he describes KP staff slumped over their desks crying, and his brother being angry with MM for the way she was treating staff. And let's not forget the palace had to carry out an HR investigation. Such a coincidence that had to happen following MM's (very short, but seemingly brutal) tenure as a principle.

IIRC, all the DM and other UK press has done is report on the findings of other sources, either from their books (Courtiers, Spare) or their investigations (Vanity Fair, Hollywood Reporter). Rather than reporting on what their own sources are saying directly to them. Anything potentially contentious from direct sources gets checked over legally for potential libel. Thus far, there have been no legal ramifications for any publication stating the bullying accusations against MM.

Perhaps you have been drinking Kool-Aid from the Sussex Squad? If so, it's poisoning you, put it down.

edited for clarity.

I agree about Catherine. Marrying someone from a stable background who is secure in herself and emotionally intelligent was the best thing William could have done. Navigating a family who are institutionalised and prone to irritation needs those sort of skills to be successful.

Sophie seems to be a similar character as does Camilla (wasn't there something in a recent documentary where someone said how much Camilla helped Charles who is a bit of an eyeore?).

I have always felt sorry for Meghan entering the institution. Not at the time, at the time or the engagement interview when she talked about how welcoming the family had been it seemed to be good. But afterwards in their interviews and in the book you can see the obstacles she had.

I have spent quite a lot of time explaining protocol to American friends, Harry did none of that. When discussing the Royal family with Americans you realise how much of their position in society and the expectations we have of them are unstated. There isn't a rule book but there are rules. An example, that expensive engagement photo dress, there is a reason the late Queen's tupperware gets mentioned often. We want our tiara wearing royals to live like the frugal middle classes. They can wear expensive stuff at banquets but not elsewhere. Catherine has been criticised for wearing expensive earrings at engagements so it isn't just Meghan.

There are so many things like this that the public expects and which aren't really written down anywhere. Harry didn't help Meghan at all, instead he just seems to have been so relieved someone was willing to marry him that he went along with anything she wanted and everything she said. I feel sorry for Meghan being married to the Prince Regent

I really don't understand why no one asked Meghan not to hug them. I only hug people I feel close to and when others approach me for a hug I politely explain I'm not really a hugger. No one has ever taken offense and neither have they kept trying to hug me.

Use your words William!

Using his words didn't really seem to help William when he did speak out on other things according to spare. Offense would have been taken. Why people don't speak depends on why they don't like hugging. Personally I've spent my life doing things that make me uncomfortable for the purpose of fitting in. Speaking out draws attention

A good point that speaking out caused offense. It makes me sad that people feel they have to do things they are uncomfortable with just to fit in. Apart from wearing clothes, I want the natural nudists dressed.

I think that the 'it was all so alien to her' explanation for Meghan's discomfort and Megxit is often overcooked.

Meghan is a self-declared intellectual and autodidact. I'm sure she's had ample opportunity to read loads of books about the British RF - for me I'm constantly eating up Alison Weir, Dan Jones, any popular history book on the Mediaeval RF I can get really. It FASCINATES me. There are plenty of such books on the 20th century RF - Andrew Marr and D Starkey both have books that are impeccably well researched yet easy and engaging to read. Perfect for someone with a busy schedule, like Meghan.

Also, Meghan is a self-declared empath and woman of the world. Also had what she has described as a significant humanitarian role with the UN. As such, she would have been well aware that different cultures can often seem alien and strange, but with observation, hard work and humility in asking for help, one can come to understand them far better.

So in conclusion I find it hard to believe that an empath, intellectual and humanitarian such as Meghan found the idea of different cultural practices so difficult to accept.

Perhaps the real problem was that she was not treated with the deference and admiration she felt she deserved. Probably not the best PR to admit that publicly, though. Far better to pretend that people who curtsy, or people who don't like hugs, or people who are not glued to email 24/7, are an alien species which it would be impossible for anyone ever to understand.

Perhaps @MrsLeonFarrell , the royal household was, indeed, trying to make Meghan feel welcome. And so were not immediately pushing back (literally and figuratively) on her breaches of etiquette, but hoping she would learn from the numerous resources offered to her. Also, because the very start of their relationship becoming public involved Harry's public condemnation of the press as being racist (which William backed up), then I wonder if they were all tiptoeing around both Harry and Meghan at the beginning hoping not to offend. And last, it would not surprise me if they were simply worried about Harry within this relationship (if he was acting defensive, stopped seeing his friends, changed in personality), and didn't want to push him away by pushing her away.