Times article today

[MrsLeonFarrell]

This is a blatant being request for an archive link for The Times article about Catherine and Meghan called an insiders view.

Can anyone help?

In fact they even breached their own infamous etiquette to help her feel welcome. She was invited to Christmas at Balmoral before she was married to Harry - a highly unusual honour which Kate, Sophie and Diana did not recieve.

Yes, that's true @GiveMeSpanakopita . Is that when she was sticking her tongue out at the cameras in the poo hat?

Firstly someone needs to show me how to edit quotes on the app, sorry for the long text!

Empath, intellectual, humanitarian. I agree that such a person would have been able to navigate protocol. However it's pretty obvious that Meghan isn't those things. If she was their post royal life would have been far more successful. Her fatal flaw seems to me to be that she projects images of who she wants to be but can't own who she actually is. This is why her identity is always changing and why she couldn't adapt to the institution.

I said in another thread recently that I feel Meghan will be more successful when she owns who she is, someone who wants to project perfection in every area of her life and who wants to be A list. She is a chameleon at the moment in search of the perfect background. Just ditch that Meghan, you are a competitive woman who was to be successful, that is nothing to be ashamed of. Ditch the Royal titles and go for it.

That may well be true and maybe if Harry, instead of supporting everything she did, had tried to guide and advise her, things would have ended differently.

I think in fairness, the Queen Mother as an Earls daughter born at the turn of the 20th C and to a lesser degree Diana had far more idea of the royal lifestyle on marriage than either Meghan or Kate. They grew up in stately homes, with staff and in RF adjacent circles. The varying success the two later royal wives had is IMO probably mainly personality but also the amount of effort in preparing them by their respective husbands.

The boot pulling thing I'm meh about. Riding boots are tight and it's pretty usual to need some help getting them off. I'm not sure it implies servility even if an unfortunte image.

Empath, intellectual, humanitarian. I agree that such a person would have been able to navigate protocol. However it's pretty obvious that Meghan isn't those things.

In critiquing Meghan I always take care to do so on the basis of her own words about herself. Not only is this considerably more amusing to me, but it also helps me to avoid making assumptions about her which may not have an empirical basis.

I look for evidence that her words about herself are accurate. I don't think there is a lot of evidence that she is a humanitarian, certainly Vanity Fair couldn't find any. I do think she is clever but that isn't the same as being an intellectual (that may be about how I define those words). As to Empath, I hasn't seen her describe herself that way but I think she is far too quick to assign terrible motives to everyone to qualify as an Empath.

I do have a lot of sympathy for her and the position she has found herself in. I believe she would find more success as herself rather than trying to be who she thinks she needs to be, if that makes sense.

Sandringham , not Balmoral.

' The boot pulling thing I'm meh about. Riding boots are tight and it's pretty usual to need some help getting them off. I'm not sure it implies servility even if an unfortunte image.'

I need help to get wellies off, never mind riding boots 😁

Did M ever go to Balmoral?

I always think Balmoral looks like the best bit of being Royal.

I don't have much sympathy for her, in that she's an intelligent, healthy adult with the kind of wealth, privilege and social capital which 99.999999% of the rest of the world could only dream of. I think she's probably doing quite all right and will continue doing quite all right, even if she doesn't end up making the celebrity humanitarian and tradwife jam-seller route work for her. She'll land on her feet whatever happens. She's clearly very resourceful.

However, I do concede that the current crop of US press coverage must sting. The Daily Beast metaphorically eviscerated her over her Billie Eilish T-Shirt promo video, calling it 'self aggrandizing' and all sorts. That must hurt somewhat, since the Daily Beast is very much a Progressive, Left-of-centre outfit and even 3 years ago was vociferously supportive of her.

The US media can be utterly vicious compared with the UK press, and First Amendment means that they can't be silenced or intimidated as easily. Brand Sussex is in for a rocky ride, unfortunately.

The pic I like most is the one of Harry giving his armpit a good old sniff whilst his bodyguard obediently cleans his (Harry's) sunglasses on his previously nicely ironed shirt.

That pic cracks me up for some reason

I think that the 'it was all so alien to her' explanation for Meghan's discomfort and Megxit is often overcooked.

Totally agree, @GiveMeSpanakopita , she gets quite a lot of benefit of the doubt... and yes, in many different ways Meghan has positioned herself as an intellectual, humanitarian thought-leader and woman of the world. Did she so much as pick up a book or flip through the folder created for her when she joined the RF? I doubt she did, but would be happy to be corrected.

Perhaps the real problem was that she was not treated with the deference and admiration she felt she deserved. Probably not the best PR to admit that publicly, though. Far better to pretend that people who curtsy, or people who don't like hugs, or people who are not glued to email 24/7, are an alien species.

There were times when she received a lot of adulation, for instance on her wedding day - notably during what a pp wittily dubbed "a carriage ride to nowhere". People lined the avenue and were practically throwing roses at her feet. But the adulation wasn't constant enough, and she must have felt it begin to dwindle too soon. Her difficulty assimilating has to be at least partially down to this, because her failure to understand the ways of the British and the RF does not fit with her supposedly important role in the UN and her diplomatic/political aspirations.

Possibly not if you come from California though, it's a very British way of holidaying.

Quite. Harry told us in Spare that Kate asking Meghan not to say she had baby brain, and William pointing at Meghan and telling her she was being rude caused great offence. So a request that Meghan respects their boundaries over hugging would be unlikely to have been well received.

Indeed. Let us not forget that the rift between the brothers began because Harry took enormous offence that William, looking out for his little brother, had suggested to Harry that he 'slow down' the pace of his relationship with Meghan.

Also that Harry threatened his grandparents by his own account, telling them that if they did not give him permission to marry Meghan, the public would conclude the Queen was racist (well only if you went public with that Allegation, Harry).

Also that Meghan's flirtacious manner with William raised eyebrows in the Palace (and pissed Harry off).

Given this febrile atmosphere created by Harry, I'm not surprised that William chose not to 'use his words' every time Meghan launched herself at him and pulled him into a hug.

It's up to him of course and we don't know whether he ever said anything. Maybe he did and was ignored and chose not to take it further but if he didn't say anything because he was afraid of offending it kind of indicates that Meghan wasn't the only one that was bullying others, Harry was too.

Maybe, maybe not. It might have depended on when he asked. If he had said something in the stage when 'they were the family she'd never had' it might have been heard. Of course I'm assuming here that Meghan was acting in good faith.

@StrawberryWasp I believe she didn't go to Balmoral but did go to the Castle of Mey (that was when the seals sang to her). I agree, I'd love to spend time in the Scottish highlands. I wouldn't do the hunting, fishing, shooting but would love the hiking.

Also that Meghan's flirtacious manner with William raised eyebrows in the Palace (and pissed Harry off).

If this is true it does help to explain various things, Catherine not being a fan, William advising caution, Harry being keen to leave, and why the brothers' relationship deteriorated so badly. Meghan being a bit too interested would surely have been the last straw for Harry's relationship with William. That AND the extra sausage, just too much.

Meghan truly is a woman of numinous powers. I'm sure I've never had seals sing to me.

Mind you, I've never had the ghost of Princess Diana speak to me whilst I'm doing yoga either.

It was the sausage that broke the donkey's back!

Or knelt on the grave of a woman you had never met, eyes closed, hands pressed against the headstone begging for guidance.....

Performative.

When they start to come in for the unwanted hug, put your hand up in front of you at chest level, almost arms length, and shake your head slowly. Neutral expression. Non-verbal communication is more powerful than words, and few people can resist the “stop sign”. If someone persists, you need to have a serious talk with them: “Barbara, I need you to stop trying to hug me. I really don’t like it at all”. And ignore the Sad Face they do to try to make you feel like a meanie, because “aw I’m just a really warm person and I love everybody I do!” Their desire to hug everyone doesn’t trump your desire not to be touched.

I agree with you- huggers often are seen as warm and loving, but if they ignore someone’s discomfort they’re actually forcing unwanted touching. MM is an extreme toucher. It’s interesting watching the body language, because they way she steers her husband around with touches is really unusual and looks controlling.

Absolutely correct and very well put.