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The royal family

Harry v NGN 2

907 replies

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 23/01/2025 00:40

I don't think we're done talking - and I never start threads!

As you were!

OP posts:
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28
Serenster · 24/01/2025 14:55

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 14:53

Sorry I forgot you are going the pedantic route. A case can only be won or lost of a judge declares in court it is a win or loss.

Not how the vast majority of people see it, but I will remember you like to be pedantic for the future.

You speak for the millions around the world now do you?

If a football game is called off for a frozen pitch and points equally allocated, do you think football fans call that a win?

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 14:55

Serenster · 24/01/2025 14:53

William didn’t file a court claim against NGN though. So no, he didn’t win his case, because he didn’t file one.

There was a settlement negotiated with lawyers. We have no idea how the claim was dealt with as William did not reveal this. Harry revealed it in his documents to the court. William also received no public apology.

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 14:57

@Serenster If a game is a draw, but that takes the football club through to a promotion in the League and millions of extra earnings, yes fans call it a win.

IcedPurple · 24/01/2025 14:58

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 14:53

Sorry I forgot you are going the pedantic route. A case can only be won or lost of a judge declares in court it is a win or loss.

Not how the vast majority of people see it, but I will remember you like to be pedantic for the future.

And this is where I regret not heeding my own advice and bothering to respond!

Calling someone 'pedantic' is an admission of defeat. Almost by definition, a settlement means that a legal case was avoided. That's the whole point of it. You can't win a contest that doesn't exist. You can argue about who came out better in the out of court settlement, but it is a fact that there was no 'case' and therefore no 'win'. Or loss.

And yes, facts matter and words have meaning. I couldn't give a fiddler's if you think that's 'pedantic' or not.

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:05

@IcedPurple People settle court cases all the time. Especially under UK laws which actively encourage it.

It is widely seen as a win if a court case is settled with extremely favourable terms for example -

Location = Birmingham
Claimant jobs = Cleaners, Carers, Teaching Assistants
Comparator jobs = Gravediggers and Streetcleaners
Details = More than 4,500 female employees of Birmingham City Council argued that their jobs were equal to those of some male colleagues. This is one of the most high profile and successful equal pay cases in UK history. The claim was settled in the claimant’s favour and cost the Council around £200 million in compensation. This case is widely seen as an equal pay claim win.

Atlasvue · 24/01/2025 15:06

🪨

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:07

And look up the equal pay claim in Birmingham that I refer to. It is widely described as a win for the claimants.

I and others will continue to refer to Harry's settlement and public apology as a win.

Atlasvue · 24/01/2025 15:07

😂

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:08

Atlasvue · 24/01/2025 15:06

🪨

What does this mean? Is it another personal insult?

IAmATorturedPoet · 24/01/2025 15:12

Atlasvue · 24/01/2025 15:07

😂

😂

IcedPurple · 24/01/2025 15:14

It's probably described as a win for claimants because well, it was a win for claimants.

You've not provided a source for your claim, but 10 seconds on The Google showed me that it was the result of an employment tribunal. So there was an actual case. Not an out of court settlement. That's why the word 'compensation' is used.

Whereas Harry's case never went to trial and was settled outside of court.

It's a fairly fundamental difference, but I guess that's 'pedantic'.

Hasty Googling is not always your friend.

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:15

@IcedPurple the case was settled out of court.

jeffgoldblum · 24/01/2025 15:17

I didn’t think employment tribunals actually went to court?

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:19

Just read Prince Harrys statement. I am posting it below.

"In a monumental victory today, News UK have admitted that The Sun, the flagship title for Rupert Murdoch’s UK media empire, has indeed engaged in illegal practices. This represents a vindication for the hundreds of other claimants who were strong-armed into settling, without being able to get to the truth of what was done to them. After endless resistance, denials and legal battles by News Group Newspapers, including spending more than a billion pounds in payouts and in legal costs, as well as paying off those in the know to prevent the full picture from coming out, News UK is finally held to account for its illegal actions and its blatant disregard for the law.

"It has also specifically admitted wrongdoing against Tom Watson and admitted unlawful acts by The Sun, as well as by the News of the World, against Prince Harry.

"The truth that has now been exposed is that NGN unlawfully engaged more than 100 private investigators over at least 16 years on more than 35,000 occasions. This happened as much at The Sun as it did at the News of the World, with the knowledge of all the editors and executives, going to the very top of the company.

"What's even worse is that in the wake of the 2006 arrest of a royal correspondent, there was an extensive conspiracy to cover up what really had been going on and who knew about it. Senior executives deliberately obstructed justice by deleting over 30 million emails, destroying back-up tapes, and making false denials – all in the face of an ongoing police investigation. They then repeatedly lied under oath to cover their tracks – both in court and at the Leveson public inquiry.

"At her trial, in 2014 Rebekah Brooks, said 'When I was editor of The Sun we ran a clean ship'. Now, 10 years later when she is CEO of the company, they now admit, when she was editor of The Sun, they ran a criminal enterprise. Far from being relics of a distant past, many of those behind these unlawful practices remain firmly entrenched in senior positions today, both within News UK and other media outlets across the world, wielding editorial power and perpetuating the toxic culture in which they continue to thrive.

"It's perhaps no surprise that all of their senior executives and editors refused to turn up to court to give evidence. The failure of each of these key individuals to come and answer questions under oath spoke volumes in itself, but their collective silence is deafening. Today's result has been achieved only through the sheer resilience of Prince Harry and Tom Watson, whose willingness to take newsgroup newspapers to trial has led directly to this historic admission of unlawfulness at the site. It has only been by taking News Group not just to the steps of court, but inside the courtroom itself, that these claimants have finally managed to extract this historic admission of guilt.

"As a direct result of him taking a stand, Prince Harry and his immediate family have also had to repeatedly withstand aggressive and vengeful coverage since starting his claim over 5 years ago.This has created serious concerns for the security of him and his family. The rule of law must now run its full course. Prince Harry and Tom Watson join others in calling for the police and Parliament to investigate not only the unlawful activity now finally admitted, but the perjury and cover ups along the way. It is clear now that this has occurred throughout this process, including through sworn evidence in inquiries and court hearings in testimony to parliament, and until today's final collapse of News Group's defense.

Today the lies are laid bare. Today the cover-ups are exposed, and today proves that no one stands above the law. The time for accountability has arrived. Thank you very much."

sleepwouldbenice · 24/01/2025 15:20

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:08

What does this mean? Is it another personal insult?

It's grey rock
As in they will ignore you as you don't agree with them

Atlasvue · 24/01/2025 15:21

Thats it, im totally convinced now. Harry’s the winner! Congratulations meeeeee!

Honestly, it’s pure comedy at this point 😂

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:22

sleepwouldbenice · 24/01/2025 15:20

It's grey rock
As in they will ignore you as you don't agree with them

Thank you so much for explaining. I did not know what it was.
They don't actually ignore me though. They just throw snarkiness.

Atlasvue · 24/01/2025 15:23

What? You’ve totally convinced me though? Through the multiple, lengthy posts from a person that’s definitely not a superfan!

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:23

This explains Harry's stance with the settlement.

“You cannot have public confidence in a public inquiry if people don’t tell the truth under oath and there’s no consequence,” said Dr. Evan Harris, a former Liberal Democrat member of Parliament who was a consultant to Harry’s legal team.
“The admission that there was unlawful information gathering at The Sun, which Harry extracted through his brave stand, saying he will not bend to offers of cash only, is a huge step on the way to getting sunlight in that area and getting the accountability that he and we all want,” Harris said.

Serenster · 24/01/2025 15:25

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 14:57

@Serenster If a game is a draw, but that takes the football club through to a promotion in the League and millions of extra earnings, yes fans call it a win.

It didn’t here though. That would have been having senior management at the Sun and NGN implicated and unlawful activity by Sun journalists themselves proved. That was the League promotion Harry was looking for, and he didn’t get it.

jeffgoldblum · 24/01/2025 15:27

Perhaps if the ngn post statement is continuously posted here , people may read it , and be as convinced as us.

sleepwouldbenice · 24/01/2025 15:29

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:07

And look up the equal pay claim in Birmingham that I refer to. It is widely described as a win for the claimants.

I and others will continue to refer to Harry's settlement and public apology as a win.

I agree with you.

When I heard PH settled my heart sank. But when I heard that statement that was published I thought it was brilliant.

Clear sign to the public that they had lied continously, in court , enquiries. That they were just hiding themselves from personal prosecution. Full apologies. Most people will hold the individuals in contempt. They won't care what I think but their reputation s are certainly damaged.

I hope its the end of it. PH gets on my nerves lots, really don't want to hear much else from him.

But this is a good outcome for him and I am pleased. There are lots of bitter people who have spent hours of their lives arguing otherwise, over months, maybe years. That says more about them than anything

JoyousGreyOrca · 24/01/2025 15:29

@Atlasvue A superfan of who?
Do you see me on other Royal family threads? Np.

I have already said I followed the Leveson Enquiry closely and I have followed this NGN trial closely. The way the media acts is disgraceful. I have even explained person information about why I feel so strongly about the way the media behave.

This NGN trial is important, it matters. And although some have always presented it as Harrys case, it was actually a case that involved 39 claimants. All had to settle, before the latest settlement, even though some did not want to. Hugh Grant, publicly apologised to Harry and others for settling saying under UK law he could not risk the potential financial loss.

The media are no longer as far as I know behaving as badly as they used to with pretty routine phone hacking. But they still behave totally unethically. Talk to anyone who is a high profile victim in the news. That is why all this matters far beyond what any of you personally think about any individual. I wish you could recognise this.

sleepwouldbenice · 24/01/2025 15:31

Atlasvue · 24/01/2025 15:21

Thats it, im totally convinced now. Harry’s the winner! Congratulations meeeeee!

Honestly, it’s pure comedy at this point 😂

You're right. You are

IcedPurple · 24/01/2025 15:32

jeffgoldblum · 24/01/2025 15:27

Perhaps if the ngn post statement is continuously posted here , people may read it , and be as convinced as us.

David Sherborne read out a statement saying NGN had admitted to 'illegal practices' but he must know very well that no such thing had been admitted to, nor would it ever be in the settlement of a civil case. Then again, he's always been a bit of a showman.

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