Anyone starting to feel sorry for them?

[Aspargar]

https://archive.ph/vV0f9

No matter how preeningly narcissistic the couple may seem, surely even they must now have realised what the source of their woes is? The fact is: people were only interested in hearing what Harry and Meghan had to say when they were dishing the dirt on the royal family.Hence, in January last year, the record-breakingly vast sales of Harrys memoir Spare. with all its eye-popping claims about his brother, father and stepmother. But every time he, and Meghan, start talking about any other topic – be it sport, jam or social justice – the world turns off. No one cares. Now that the Sussexes have finished flogging all the family secrets, they’ve got nothing that anyone wants.

There is part of me that does feelsorry for them too. I mean 2024 has been a disaster, off the back of 2023 which was another disaster. It’s not going to get any better. Reap what you sow, so we knew it was coming their way but it’s all a bit sad and pathetic now. The faux tours, cards from ‘the office of’, as time goes on, the more pathetic that will look because they have lost all connection to the Royals

This must be their year of reckoning. He won’t win his cases, they will lose Netflix, the brand will face further set backs, they realise that their kids will never have a royal Christmas at Sandringham or summer at Balmoral, ever. In fact they are unlikely to ever meet the King again.

Its all came off the rails. We all knew it would happen. Many could even see the disaster impending from the engagement announcement. But it’s still hard to watch and that’s what makes me feel a bit sorry for them.

Prepared to be flamed! 😬

So actually I don't think that 'parading' W&H is an example of the RF being dysfunctional or sacrificing them. I think it shows one of the weaknesses of democracy, that such a proportion of the population is so easily emotionally swayed/manipulated.

Sadly. I still think democracy is the best system. But that it not perfect.

And yes, Charles Spencer had a lot to say. Unfortunately he seems to have treated his own wives as badly as his accusations against Charles, and for all his claims seems to have made no great effort to be there for W&H.

He turned out to be the perfect example of hypocrisy, didn't he?!

@wigsonthegreenandhatsforthelifting "
"I don't think the RF ever wanted the boys to do that walk but they succumbed to public pressure to do it, because they feared the repercussions if they didn't."

But that is completely my point. They may not have wanted it, but they agreed to it for the good of the RF, thus sacrificing the boys. They could have chosen to put the boy's needs first, but they didn't.

Lots of people walk behind coffins, including children. I don't think that is wrong in itself. It's the worst side of being royal that sometimes your position means you have to do difficult things in public.

I don't think there has ever been a clear narrative about the decision for the boys to walk behind the coffin. I've certainly heard them both talk about being glad they did it and not being glad. The clearest negative reaction from them seems to have been to comforting the crowds when they went to view the flowers. I agree with Harry that it was bizarre that the public expected her children to comfort them.

I remember that whole period very clearly and some of the reactions of the crowd and the press were ridiculous and reflected a complete loss of perspective.

People’s behaviour after Diana’s death was frankly bizarre. I’ve no doubt whipped up by the press due to the fact that she had died being pursued by photographers who would probably have sold those photos to those same press barons.

Why did the Queen have to return to London? Most people I knew thought it was ridiculous at the time. It was the press that stoked a lot of the fire imo.

Walking behind the coffin tbh I don’t know if there ever is a right answer for that as you never know if not having walked behind it, then further down the line William and Harry may have felt they wished they had in hindsight.

I think the area of the funeral is one which any credible psychotherapist should have explored with Harry a long time ago, specifically how it would have affected William and Harry differently.

On the one hand you have William, a maturing, pretty bright 14 year old; and Harry, a not so bright 12 year old.

It might go some way to understanding where Harry's messianic complexes started to be established (the same ones which are exploited by others), given he probably recalls the whackjobs in the crowd pleading for his face, his words, his touch, to connect with the sainted Diana.

It's also why I'm uncomfortable about the adoration of the Wales children and the apparent 'need' to touch them at Sandringham.

@WinterCrow - does feel like history is repeating, particularly the stuff about Louis being the naughty one (generally just acting like a normal child his age).

@MrsLeonFarrell "Lots of people walk behind coffins, including children. I don't think that is wrong in itself."

Nobody has ever walked behind a coffin in those circumstances. Nobody. The British public were in such a state of deluded faux grief that those boys should have been kept a million miles away from them. Which appears to have been the RF's first instinct. But nothing matters more than the preservation of the family. So the walk, the meeting the public, the little heartbreaking wreath.....Just appalling.

I remember that the Spencer’s initially wanted a private funeral on the Althorp Estate. I’m not sure why that didn’t happen. Probably because of the sheer numbers of guests and security issues.

I remember the walkabout, it was so disturbing.
People who had never met Diana sobbing and grabbing those poor boys who looked absolutely shell shocked. The hysteria at the time was unbelievable and distasteful, people behaved appallingly wanting to ' be part of history'.
I do understand how damaging that must of been for both Harry and William but Harry just doesn't seem to have moved on from that stage of his life.

Yup, and now it's all being filmed on phones as well and uploaded in seconds.

I completely agree with you that the circumstances were unique. I'm not prepared though to ascribe it all to the preservation of the family because I think it's much more complicated than that. It was a unique event and no one makes perfect decisions in such dreadful circumstances.

It was at the government's insistence

Slightly O/T but I'm utterly convinced by the conspiracy theory that Diana was never buried on the island but laid to rest beside her father in the local church.

It explains why her hideous brother allowed the island site to fall into major disrepair over the years although I believe it's been gussied up again recently.

Gosh there's a blast from the past.

Alastair Campbell’s autobiography confirms this - the Spencers wanted a private funeral, and the Queen was supportive of this, but the government thought that this was not the mood of the people. Campbell says that he thought the public would misinterpret a private family funeral as either the Spencers sticking two fingers up at the Royal Family, or as the Royal Family putting Diana down. So a big event it had to be, according to Alastair.

Also, the accounts report that the public antagonism (massively contributed to by the tabloid press - sample headlines that week included “Has the House of Windsor Got a Heart“; “Your people are suffering, Speak to us Ma’am; “Show us you care”“Where is our Queen? Where is our flag?”) had already been allayed by firstly the Queen ordering a Union Jack flag to be hung at half-mast over Buckingham Palace, and then by the family coming back to London from Balmoral on Friday 5 September and the Queen and Phillip’s impromptu walkabout that afternoon after viewing the books of condolence at the Chapel Royal. Her arrival was greeted with applause by the crowd, by the way. Even The Guardian’s coverage noted that the tension immediately dissipated” when the Queen walked towards the crowd. The Queen then gave her address on live TV, “speaking as your Queen and a grandmother”.

So by the time Charles, William and Harry went out to meet the crowds at Kensington Palace later in the evening on 5 September, and then walked behind the coffin the next day, the mood had changed so much that there seems very little evidence that the boys were paraded to “save” the Royal Family. It’s easy to throw around allegations like that, but the evidence disproves it (and if you want to test this, go and watch the documentary about Diana’s life that is simply contemporaneous news reports and video footage, with no voiceover narrative. It’s illuminating).

But at what point were the funeral arrangements announced?

I think it was a mistake to have the two boys walk behind the coffin and if they hadn’t done it, no one in the general public would have even thought anything strange about it.

State funerals have the traditional formality of walking mourners - particularly the closest adult (usually only male relatives) - minors always go by car.

But Diana’s non-state funeral was an odd situation. She had a divorced spouse and one brother. The funeral had to be quickly brought together and so they used as a template the plan for the Queen Mother’s funeral which everyone had been preparing for and practicing for years. There male grandchildren and potentially great grandchildren were planned to be walking behind the coffin - so I imagine that’s how the subject was first broached.

William has said that it was Prince Philip who suggested they might want to do the walk and he would be with them if they did. I assume he was thinking of his own experience at his sister’s funeral - perhaps that element of mourning meant something to him and he felt the boys would benefit from that. I’m fairly certain he wasn’t thinking about how it would play with the public.

Surely Diana would not have been buried without a headstone? How would the burial have taken place anyway without anyone noticing. I don’t believe that for a minute.

Probably the walkabout was the one thing that shouldn't have happened. That was horrendous, and way beyond what any child should have had to experience in such tragic circumstances.

And while I understood the sentiment behind what Charles Spencer said at Diana's funeral I think he should have shut his trap for the sake of the boys.

I agree, I don't believe it was only about the preservation of the monarchy. I think the Queen was always anxious to do the 'right' thing and was driven by her sense of duty and destiny.

I think she, and Philip, would have thought it was the 'right' thing to do, to acknowledge the public's hysterical 'grief'.

She also had two BILs and I don't remember them walking behind the coffin?

Good point too about Philip's sister. I guess he and the Queen were of that era in manners and tradition, and they may have thought the boys would regret it in time to come if they didn't do it?

There's a private chapel on the estate and also a heavily secured family crypt in the local church. No need for a headstone.

The theory is the burial took place secretly at night but didn't go entirely unnoticed by the village I guess anyone not wanting to see chaotic tourist hordes descending would be easily persuaded to keep their trap shut about what they'd seen.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-crypt-princess-diana-secretly-19777083

I think it's entirely plausible. Who'd really stick their sis in a dank little island all alone when there's a much more easily visited cosy vault going begging?

I just finished Spare, and Harry doesn't really talk about the funeral, even though he talks about Diana a lot. I wonder if the real ceremony was indeed private?