Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The royal family

The Guardian: Prince Harry at 40

310 replies

TallerSally · 14/09/2024 10:32

Somewhat more even-keeled coverage of Prince Harry at 40 from Caroline Davies at The Guardian.

Arguably understated quite a few of Harry's recent achievements, eg Spare being the 2023 Nr 1 UK bestseller, or the phenomenal growth of Harry's Invictus Games which will now have 25 countries participating in Whistler/Vancouver February 2025. Little or no mention of the numerous awards Harry has won, eg most recently his ESPY Pat Tilman Award for Service and being named a Living Legend of Aviation, etc.

Anyway, nice to see an attempt at painting a more balanced, perhaps less hysterically rabidly negative picture...

Enjoy!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/sep/14/prince-harry-at-40-the-difference-a-decade-has-made-to-the-dukes-life

Prince Harry at 40: the difference a decade has made to the duke’s life

Living among film stars and estranged from his father and brother, Harry’s milestone birthday may bring moment of reflection

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/sep/14/prince-harry-at-40-the-difference-a-decade-has-made-to-the-dukes-life

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
Sunsetand · 27/09/2024 07:10

What, a bit like Meghan accusing someone in the rf of racism but not saying who? That sort of thing you mean?

I agree with this. Meghan should have said who. In retrospect she absolutely should have said who.

Sunsetand · 27/09/2024 07:15

Interesting that the bullying accusations were made only days before the OW interview.

Unfortunately, it comes across a trying to discredit Meghan before she’d opened her mouth.

I wonder, were the royal family ever really interested in pursuing a proper investigation into bullying of staff in the family? I doubt it. We’ve seen past accusations made by a staff member of Charles having verbal tantrums and throwing a book, and accusations of Andrew bullying a young maid over teddy bear placement, and also the observation years ago, that Princess Anne could ‘bring a grown man to tears,’ (they’ve recycled that for Meghan), Edward throwing a tizzy at the end of Its A Royal Knockout because the journalists weren’t responding as he thought they should.

Then just recently, I was interested to read it was never an investigation into bullying anyway, that It was an investigation into how the palace responds to accusations of bullying. So many smoke and mirrors with this royal lot. Who knows?

smilesy · 27/09/2024 07:32

Then just recently, I was interested to read it was never an investigation into bullying anyway, that It was an investigation into how the palace responds to accusations of bullying. So many smoke and mirrors with this royal lot. Who knows?

No, it was always made clear that it was an investigation in to the palace’s policy on responding to bullying. How people interpreted what this meant is their problem. But it was prompted by the allegations made against Meghan. It is still effectively an investigation in to the allegations of bullying and what was done about them.

As for the other incidents that you
mention, whilst unpleasant and unnecessary, they sound more like temper tantrums rather than bullying. Bullying is a sustained form of behaviour and is far more insidious that just shouting at someone

Anyway, it would seem that Meghan’s behaviour wasn’t confined to the palace. It seems to have followed her to Montecito. I’m not sure why you think lots of people would be making these allegations up 🤷‍♀️

Hughs · 27/09/2024 07:47

As for the other incidents that you
mention, whilst unpleasant and unnecessary, they sound more like temper tantrums rather than bullying. Bullying is a sustained form of behaviour and is far more insidious that just shouting at someone

I do like the inclusion of Edward getting annoyed once in 1987 as a reason for the RF not wanting to investigate bullying. That's definitely equivalent to Meghan's alleged behaviour 😂

I agree, I knew the report was into how allegations of bullying are handled, what the RF procedures for that are etc. That was made clear at the time and I don't think there's anything to be suspicious of there.

Serenster · 27/09/2024 08:57

Interesting that the bullying accusations were made only days before the OW interview.
Unfortunately, it comes across a trying to discredit Meghan before she’d opened her mouth.

The journalist who broke the story, Valentine Low, explained quite openly why it had come out before the Oprah interview.

Meghan’s former staff felt particularly aggrieved that she was about to broadcast a global interview telling the world how much she had suffered in her time in the Royal family, and what a victim she was. Her appalling treatment of her staff would obviously not be mentioned. They thought it very unfair she had a global audience to put across her version of the story, when they had been effectively gagged by her.

So yes, it was an attempt to show that there are two sides to every story. It may have discredited her, but she was also setting out to discredit them, and otherwise, they would have had no right of reply. Sometime the “little people” do get to have their voices heard.

CoffeeCantata · 27/09/2024 08:59

Sunsetand · 27/09/2024 07:10

What, a bit like Meghan accusing someone in the rf of racism but not saying who? That sort of thing you mean?

I agree with this. Meghan should have said who. In retrospect she absolutely should have said who.

And OW should have challenged her about claiming racism for a family conversation light-heartedly musing over the appearance of an expected child. Two of my friends in mixed-race relationships say this is absolutely the norm and does not imply racism...but I guess it was snapped up by Meghan as useful 'victim' material.

Harry later pathetically refuted it - so why did he allow her to say something so damaging to a world audience? He's an idiot and she's venomous.

Serenster · 27/09/2024 08:59

I wonder, were the royal family ever really interested in pursuing a proper investigation into bullying of staff in the family? I doubt it. We’ve seen past accusations made by a staff member of Charles having verbal tantrums and throwing a book, and accusations of Andrew bullying a young maid over teddy bear placement, and also the observation years ago, that Princess Anne could ‘bring a grown man to tears,’ (they’ve recycled that for Meghan), Edward throwing a tizzy at the end of Its A Royal Knockout because the journalists weren’t responding as he thought they should.

This is also more than a bit disingenuous. I don’t know how old you are, but even in my working lifetime attitudes to what is appropriate behaviour in the workplace have massively changed (for the better). Absolutely no-one was investigating bullying in the workplace in the 1980s or 1990s.

Sunsetand · 27/09/2024 10:09

But you do have names for some of the bullying reports about Meghan - Jason Knauff, Sam Cohen, Rebecca English and even Harry himself. Why do you discount them and all the whistleblowers?

But none of it is terribly clear.

I don’t know if Meghan bullied staff or not. And I really find it hard to separate a few instances out of a whole picture of the abuse of power in which royal family members have dabbled for years.

But I’ll give it a go.

It has been reported that a complaint was made by Jason Knauf in 2018 to HR in which says he observed Meghan bullying 2 members of staff, I believe.

Why then was it not looked into until 3 years later in 2021 when, 3 days before the OW interview was going to air, we heard about it? That was when the RF or palace announced that there was to be an investigation into Meghan bullying claims.

”Days before the interview aired, Buckingham Palace announced it would investigate claims that Meghan bullied some members of staff after The Times of London reported that Knauf had filed a complaint about Meghan to the palace's HR department in October 2018.”

But somehow this became an investigation into how the RF/palaces respond to bullying claims generally? A pp confirmed it was always an investigation into how palace HR response to complaints. Which is what I recently read recently. But which was it? It’s very conflicting information for the average informed reader. And most of this bullying stuff is being commented on on social media by, at very best, the averagely informed reader. It strikes me as all a case of smoke and mirrors again, that is perpetuated by the palaces, the tabloid media and montetised social media accounts. The last people they seem to care about are the people that might have been bullied. Otherwise they’d be angry/outraged about all the bullying by various members of the royal family.

So did they ever investigate the actual bullying allegations made by Jason Knauf and come to a conclusion concerning claims of Meghan bullying? Or was nothing done, and was it then used to smear Meghan (referencing her response) with allegations of bullying days before OW interview?

It emerged that Sam Cohen has said that working with Harry and Meghan was like working with two teenagers (not sure in what context that was meant, does anyone?) and that one of Meghan’s newly employed staff had left during the tour of Australia/NZ/Fiji. Did Sam say why? Did this come from a Sam Cohen interview? Is it clear in what context Sam was she speaking? Was she speaking in regard to the alleged bullying or was it just general observations?

Rebecca English reported in the DM that Meghan had ‘hissed’ at one of the staff. I’ve assumed that was the person Sam Cohen referred to. The one who Rebecca said was reduced to tears by Meghan’s ‘hissing’ .I’m not excusing Meghan if she did that, but did she do that? Sam didn’t say she did that, did she? (I don’t know). And if she did, is it any worse than berating a young maid over teddy bears, or yelling at staff member and throwing a book? (Andrew and Charles) We know for sure who accused Charles because it is in print. The alleged object of Charles’ ire told us. To be clear, I am not excusing anyon’s bad behaviour. Hold them all responsible for their actions, I say.

Why are people so quick to point their finger at Meghan when so many other members of the family have been rumoured to have bullied people at times. It isn’t a just ‘temper tantrum’ when you are an adult in the power position.

If we are to hold Meghan to account we need to have an even playing field and hold them all to account. I’m all in for that. The only ones who haven’t been accused of bullying are the late Queen, & the current Queen (as far as I know).

I don’t think anyone can really figure this out completely. I think some take more interest than others and have forensic recall, but mostly the people accusing Meghan of bullying on social media and in the tabloid media only know parts of the story and are accusing her anyway.

https://www.businessinsider.com/buckingham-palace-investigating-meghan-markle-bullying-allegations-2021-3

Hoopper · 27/09/2024 11:34

Sunsetand · 27/09/2024 07:15

Interesting that the bullying accusations were made only days before the OW interview.

Unfortunately, it comes across a trying to discredit Meghan before she’d opened her mouth.

I wonder, were the royal family ever really interested in pursuing a proper investigation into bullying of staff in the family? I doubt it. We’ve seen past accusations made by a staff member of Charles having verbal tantrums and throwing a book, and accusations of Andrew bullying a young maid over teddy bear placement, and also the observation years ago, that Princess Anne could ‘bring a grown man to tears,’ (they’ve recycled that for Meghan), Edward throwing a tizzy at the end of Its A Royal Knockout because the journalists weren’t responding as he thought they should.

Then just recently, I was interested to read it was never an investigation into bullying anyway, that It was an investigation into how the palace responds to accusations of bullying. So many smoke and mirrors with this royal lot. Who knows?

No the bullying accusations were not made days before the OW interview - they were reported by Jason Knauf on a Buckingham Palace email dated October 2018 which expressed his concerns over MM's behaviour and how she treated staff so badly that two PAs had left in the past year.

Hoopper · 27/09/2024 11:37

smilesy · 27/09/2024 07:32

Then just recently, I was interested to read it was never an investigation into bullying anyway, that It was an investigation into how the palace responds to accusations of bullying. So many smoke and mirrors with this royal lot. Who knows?

No, it was always made clear that it was an investigation in to the palace’s policy on responding to bullying. How people interpreted what this meant is their problem. But it was prompted by the allegations made against Meghan. It is still effectively an investigation in to the allegations of bullying and what was done about them.

As for the other incidents that you
mention, whilst unpleasant and unnecessary, they sound more like temper tantrums rather than bullying. Bullying is a sustained form of behaviour and is far more insidious that just shouting at someone

Anyway, it would seem that Meghan’s behaviour wasn’t confined to the palace. It seems to have followed her to Montecito. I’m not sure why you think lots of people would be making these allegations up 🤷‍♀️

And pre-dated her UK stint as per the words of the director she worked with on the Rietmans ad campaign.

MaturingCheeseball · 27/09/2024 12:36

It’s one thing to lose it and make a general scene (and then apologise) and another to target individuals and be unpleasant to them. Was it Jason Knauf who said Meghan always had someone in her sights?

As for the “gifts for staff” -easy peasy. For a start, she was re-gifting presents. Secondly, I had a boss years ago who would say, “Darling, this is for you” (handing over something she didn’t want). It didn’t stop her being a thoroughly nasty bullying and unkind piece of work.

Serenster · 27/09/2024 12:52

Hoopper · 27/09/2024 11:34

No the bullying accusations were not made days before the OW interview - they were reported by Jason Knauf on a Buckingham Palace email dated October 2018 which expressed his concerns over MM's behaviour and how she treated staff so badly that two PAs had left in the past year.

True - they were made public before the Oprah interview aired, but the actual accusations had been made more than 2 years before, in fact.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2024 12:52

Harry later pathetically refuted (the racism allegation) - so why did he allow her to say something so damaging to a world audience?

Harry wasn't present when she made the accusations, @CoffeeCantata - probably by prior design as his face may have given it away - and even when he turned up it became apparent that their stories varied

Also, even if he had been there, would you have wanted to be the one trying to stop her? Confused

smilesy · 27/09/2024 13:00

Why are people so quick to point their finger at Meghan when so many other members of the family have been rumoured to have bullied people at times. It isn’t a just ‘temper tantrum’ when you are an adult in the power position

So does that make everyone who has a hissy fit a bully? Of course not. It doesn’t matter if you are in a position of power. If you lose your temper and then realise you have been an arse and apologise, it is the adult way to behave. Bullying has to be a sustained behaviour. This is what Meghan is being accused of. Not just going off at the deep end on occasions like we are all capable of

Americanpseudoroyaltorture · 27/09/2024 13:29

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2024 12:52

Harry later pathetically refuted (the racism allegation) - so why did he allow her to say something so damaging to a world audience?

Harry wasn't present when she made the accusations, @CoffeeCantata - probably by prior design as his face may have given it away - and even when he turned up it became apparent that their stories varied

Also, even if he had been there, would you have wanted to be the one trying to stop her? Confused

Didn't stop him (as well as her) subsequently picking up a Ripple of Hope award from the Robert F Kennedy Foundation for apparently tackling racism within the RF. He showed no embarrassment about this. He didn't change his tune until his Spare press junket, over 18 months later.

Alectoishome · 27/09/2024 13:47

Americanpseudoroyaltorture · 27/09/2024 13:29

Didn't stop him (as well as her) subsequently picking up a Ripple of Hope award from the Robert F Kennedy Foundation for apparently tackling racism within the RF. He showed no embarrassment about this. He didn't change his tune until his Spare press junket, over 18 months later.

That must be embarrassing for the foundation now that he has changed his mind and said the RF were not racist.

Americanpseudoroyaltorture · 27/09/2024 14:14

I don't think any of these people suffer from embarrassment! RFK Jr is a bit. er, interesting to say the least! Same with the Clintons and their many scandals they keep bouncing back from. Yet we are supposed to think of them as political royalty and doff our caps accordingly. The US got rid of the Brits and the BRF, and replaced the kings with political dynasties and an unassailable Supreme Court.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2024 15:05

Americanpseudoroyaltorture · 27/09/2024 13:29

Didn't stop him (as well as her) subsequently picking up a Ripple of Hope award from the Robert F Kennedy Foundation for apparently tackling racism within the RF. He showed no embarrassment about this. He didn't change his tune until his Spare press junket, over 18 months later.

True enough, but then doubtless he imagines he's entitled to these things and ignores the hypocrisy involved, just like his father with the environmental laurels

And yes, RFK is indeed an interesting one. I still can't quite get over the fact that, with that name handle, he can't get any democrats to take him on even in Massachusetts, but maybe there'll be things they know which have yet to come out

Alectoishome · 27/09/2024 15:23

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2024 15:05

True enough, but then doubtless he imagines he's entitled to these things and ignores the hypocrisy involved, just like his father with the environmental laurels

And yes, RFK is indeed an interesting one. I still can't quite get over the fact that, with that name handle, he can't get any democrats to take him on even in Massachusetts, but maybe there'll be things they know which have yet to come out

I think its because he has gone up against big pharma. Pfizer is a major sponsor/donor of the Democrats.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2024 15:25

Alectoishome · 27/09/2024 15:23

I think its because he has gone up against big pharma. Pfizer is a major sponsor/donor of the Democrats.

You could easily be right there, Alectoishome, especially given the money and influence involved, but then that's another highly secretive sector so we'll probably never know

CoffeeCantata · 27/09/2024 15:55

MaturingCheeseball · Today 12:36

It’s one thing to lose it and make a general scene (and then apologise) and another to target individuals and be unpleasant to them. Was it Jason Knauf who said Meghan always had someone in her sights?

When I was teaching (some years ago) we had a headteacher whose behaviour had some parallels. There was a rapid staff turnover because of her bullying and appalling management. Each new person was, for a week or so, utterly perfect and the answer to all her problems! They were showered with attention, compliments and favours...until she found that they couldn't solve all her (self-inflicted) problems in a flash, and then they became persona non grata - and persecuted relentlessly.

She literally had a new victim each half-term. She didn't get round to me - but it would have happened had I not left. I witnessed colleagues in tears all around school and some were actually driven to go on medical leave - and left the profession. She was a nightmare and I've never forgotten it. She was finally forced out, but she damaged a lot of people. I think, if you've experienced this kind of thing, or seen the damage which narcissists do at first hand in your life, you don't have a problem believing what all these victims of Meghan have been saying.

You also want to see the bully exposed - who wouldn't?

Americanpseudoroyaltorture · 27/09/2024 17:08

@CoffeeCantata It was very telling that Josh Kettler's "compliment" in the US Weekly article was that he received a "warm welcome". Nothing else, though. Fits the description of your ex head. He clearly couldn't solve the Sussexes' self inflicted problems any more than the teachers you mentioned could for that bully head.

Serenster · 27/09/2024 17:18

I also loved Catherine St-Laurent’s description of her time at Archewell as “incredibly meaningful to me”. Which says precisely nothing, really.

Similarly, I have described in subsequent job interviews a relatively short time spent in a role (where I was constantly being undermined by those who weren’t at all keen on the change I’d been hired to implement) as an “incredible learning experience”. And indeed it was. I learned never again to ignore signs that the politics will make a role near impossible to perform, and that if you feel you’re being undermined, you probably are!).🤣

Gorgonemilezola · 27/09/2024 21:40

We're all spin doctors at heart 😁

Rhaidimiddim · 28/09/2024 23:55

Alectoishome · 27/09/2024 13:47

That must be embarrassing for the foundation now that he has changed his mind and said the RF were not racist.

I'd add - there is no evidence that H&M tackled racism in the RF. What racism did they experience? What did they do to tackle it?

Swipe left for the next trending thread