C5 Documentary: Harry and Meghan, Rise and Fall

[IsoldeWagner]

Anyone watching this? It's on My5. I thought the first episode was interesting. I was reminded of how popular they were and how much support they got.

genuinely feel that the investigation into the bullying allegations should be published in full so everyone can draw their own conclusions!!

I would love to see what they wrote in that defence document, which Harry claimed to have been something like 36 pages of rebuttal against the bullying claims,

I think that would be the real entertainment, in all likelihood written from the perspective of how it would look if it was ever published, a la the 'Dear Daddy', fake pulling at heartstrings letter to her father.

Also, William is dealing with his wife having cancer and protecting and supporting three young children. Plus his father's illness which has increased his workload and could have a massive impact on his life at any point.

I didn't realise this thread had started and I've only read a few posts so far.

I have noticed two things.

One post quotes Paul Burrell - 'Exhausted an ocean of goodwill'. I should say. I was part of that goodwill.

The title of the programme - rise and fall.

Yes, I really agree about the boundaries William is putting in place. Plus, he doesn't have the luxury of throwing his toys out of the pram like Harry does. If he wants to quit, that would be a far bigger admin headache for the RF.

Only 2 years younger !
I do wish people would stop trying to infantilise Harry !
Yes it was awful that BOTH boys lost their Mum but only one of them is monetising it .

Imagine the strop Harry would have been having if he hadn't been allowed to walk behind his mother's coffin.
Has Harry ever looked at his grandfather's life before he married Elizabeth ? Why has he battled against his family who did their best to protect him.

I can understand Harry being scared that Meghan might do a runner. He was in his 30s, his brother was apparently (and I think definitely) happily married, and although he got on well with them at the time, he must have been lonely for a partner. I get cross with him, but I do understand why he wanted to get married sooner than later. Of course, if he'd found a 24-year-old American actress, who knows what he'd have been accused of, but there wouldn't have been the same hustle to have babies and he'd have had time to think more, and if she'd had time to back out (the mythical 24-year-old), he would have carried on being lonely.
Well, upinaballoon, I don't think that's much of a contribution, so I think you'd do well to get off your bottom and get back to the gardening.

What a good point about him looking at his grandfather's life.

You do know that Catherine has cancer ? And 3 young children ?

As do lots of other people who also have full time jobs to go to to keep the money coming in otherwise they would lose the roof over their heads. They don't have the private wealth to pay their bills and day to day spending. So let's not make out that will and kate are having to cope with a huge workload when they don't, they even have staff to help them manage alot of it as well

I don't want to talk for that poster but assume they mean before this year.
2022 - Kate did 90 engagements
2023 - She did 128 engagements
Compared against
Princess Anne 457
King Charles 425
Prince Edward 297
Queen Camilla 233
Prince William 172
I'm with you as it happens - raising 3 young children means I wouldn't expect more than a third of a year spent out and about.

Yes, but see my post about siblings having different experiences.

Maybe Harry can't understand why William isn't grieving/hasn't had the same reaction to trauma as Harry himself has.

Things are different for each of them - birth order (massively relevant for the RF actually), how their parents relationship was at the time of each birth, pressure or mood of the country at the time of each birth/the influences that placed on their parents during each child's early years.

It's not about infantalising. They are very different people. Also, who's to say William's trauma might not be more infantalising? (keeping a tight lip/towing the line. Denying?! Who knows!)

Some might say (Americans who have had a lot of therapy 'journeys'?!) that Harry's process - making a fuss, talking, literally moving away, the whole primal scream of it all - is actually more mature and healthy - for him.

I mean, I'm not of that opinion, but maybe it is savvy to try and make money out of it. Not dignified like Will, rather Harry is being canny.....

Dunno, like @upinaballoon am musing and look forward to returning to this chat with more of my cod-psychology shit later! 😜

This tedious “argument” again! Catherine and William will work until William drops dead - no retirement for them. They are taking the time to bring up their children with as much normalcy as possible, breaking the fucked up cycles of the two previous generations of royal children who were left for long periods of time with nannies and housekeepers. This is good, isn’t it? Breaking the cycle your beloved Harry experienced? Giving those kids a secure upbringing with present parents so they too don’t end up fucked up. They are not like any other ordinary family. They are doing what’s best in their circumstances with the means that they have, as any of us would in the same position.

It was me asking on page 2.
I am still confused about all of that.
I was under the impression the Byline Times had had to recant and pay costs but that was the Guardian (and to do with Dan Wootton's private life not alleged leaks) so the case against the Byline Times must be pending (he sent a letter before action) or he's still crowdfunding?
Corrections and clarifications | | The Guardian
So back to the Byline Times "investigation" (I am aware of who the journos are) into potential KP leaks.
Is there anything you have seen/read that exists online that confirms (even if just from Wootton himself, article/blog/video)
a) that the stepping back story came from the Sussexes themselves
b) that he or anyone else has successfully sued Byline for that leaks story
You mention it - I believe you - but I'll be damned if I can find it anywhere.
I cannot post Byline articles themselves on here if they have been proven to be false or defamatory. Also, to that end, why is Jones's partner not mentioned by name. Is that because of potential gay doxxing or libel? (If so, I need to ask MNHQ to take his name out of my mouth in my post on page 2)
Thanks in advance x

(Btw wanted to clarify before I Megxit the thread- by American's therapy journeys I'm thinking of the the fact that many Americans seem more comfortable with articulating therapy language that we may not expect from the RF. Princess Anne, for eg, famously dismisses psychiatry as nonsense.)

Kate had years of hounding and abuse by the press she was not protected at all by them until she was engaged to the heir meghan they stepped up for and yet still not good enough

Imagine making money out of your mother’s death !

It's funny that on a thread about a C5 documentary about H&M, some people will just leap to criticise W&K. 😂they have no argument against the claims and evidence in the documentary, so take the low road "Kate has cancer, so, lots of people do yada yada"
It's as if these things make some people feel better about H&M and their indefensible behaviour.

I absolutely agree.
I do think though that when one considers the half-in/half-out solution, and them wanting all the perks and half the work, that that argument works both ways.
They also would want to break the pattern with Archie and Lili but do 300 engagements between them and that could still have been possible, surely? (and I really want to know what all 5 were. If 1 was IN and 5 was OUT and 3 was close to IN/OUT/IN/OUT/SHAKE IT ALL ABOUT what were 2 and 4??!)

People continue to infantilise Harry and excuse him for appalling behaviour when they forget he's only 2 years younger than William!

I went to Windsor for the wedding and was in the crowd for their wedding. It was massive, marks and Spencer’s changed their name, had commemorative biscuits out. The place was heaving! We had to get special passes for it. It was massive

Yet she said she wasn’t welcomed

fuck off love. We literally had the bunting out

Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet will no doubt continue with this Sussex alternative Royal Court. Otherwise why style them so?
Or maybe they're hoping they can perform royal duties with their cousins.

I don't know any family who have both stopped working, either one is full time or at the very least part time working. Because lost people cant afford to both not be working. It's a privilege if you can both stop working and still be able to pay your bills, pay for activities, go on holidays etc whilst raising your children up. Plenty of people raise secure kids whilst doing some form of work and are still present for their children

Also William is not forced to work until he drops dead, don't be so dramatic and hyperbolic over it. He can hand over the reigns and step back just like Queen could have but she chose not to. It's a choice!

I missed that - and googling isn't returning any hits.

Can you link?

(It sounds very unlikely - so really am interested to see what she said)

While the image of Harry walking behind his mothers coffin was tragic, stark and will never go away, I've always felt a lot of sympathy for the not much older William. I was "counsellor" and very much parentified (when it suited her) to a mother in an unhappy marriage and it is damaging, in ways you don't truly grasp until later, because this is your "normal". I obviously don't know exactly how it affected William, but I know it will have. The stories of him pushing handfuls of tissues under the door when she was crying strike a chord with me, the desperation you feel to give comfort to someone you love is very strong and the fact you can't, painful. It does harm. To then lose that (I am sure much loved) parent suddenly, mid teens, is an extra layer to it all and I can only imagine how hard it was for him, as someone who had had an unasked for role as her protector and support.

For me, William's ability to create a happy marriage and become a clearly loving and involved father speaks to great strength of character. I admire and respect him for it.