C5 Documentary: Harry and Meghan, Rise and Fall

[IsoldeWagner]

Anyone watching this? It's on My5. I thought the first episode was interesting. I was reminded of how popular they were and how much support they got.

William also lost his Mum . The Mum who made a boy in his early teens her confidant. Yet he isn’t bitter and twisted.
And can we remember that Diana was no saint as I am sure Mrs Carling and Mrs Hoare will testify.

Charles didn’t cheat on Diana with Camilla “for decades”. They were only married for fifteen years and it was Diana who had the first affair. It’s been a long time now since Diana died (27 years) and Charles and Camilla seem good together in a way that he and Diana never were.

Harry just chooses to blame Camilla because it’s easy. He hasn’t thought about the whole situation and that everything is not always black and white. It would appear that Diana and Charles had become friends toward the time of her death and both may well have been happier than they were when together. It’s not up to Harry to judge his parents when he doesn’t really know the exact situation or understand the nuances of their feelings

That's very well put. Spot on.

^ Yes, which is part of Harry's problem, I think. No one else is on his side, especially the only person who might actually understand. William seems to have 'moved on' (at least publicly) in a way that Harry hasn't, (or can't- because Kate doesn't get the same flack as Meghan. For Harry, paparrazzi = you are treating my wife like my mum, and that did not end well).

It is more straightforward maybe for William to tow the line in the RF. He has a structure to his life that Harry doesn't in terms of his role. He has an assignment and he understands it (as the young people say). Duty duty duty, like the Queen. He may be as screwed up inside but he has a better scaffold for managing it. Plus, people respond to trauma in different ways. He's not Harry, so his response is different.

Harry didn't want Camilla to marry his father. He said as much. William was concerned that Harry was rushing into a marriage with Meghan. He said as much.
The difference? Harry is self righteous about the first. Angry, bitter and nasty about the second.
His chosen lifestyle of self obsession, arrogance and hypocrisy is very damaging and he can't see that. What he says and does? Fine, justified. Anyone else? Not allowed, how dare they!

@commonground we don't know about William's trauma because he has chosen not to share it, and certainly not monetise it.
He may have undergone therapy, worked very hard at dealing with it. Having a happy marriage and children no doubt has helped, also a positive relationship with the Middletons.
He also has built his relationship with his father, and with Camilla. That to me is an intelligent and mature response.

(Maybe William got all the screwy bits of Diana that Harry wasn't party to. Maybe as a result, William can absolutely see that his dad is happier with Camilla in a way that Harry's view has been stunted because he was younger).

But William was on his side. He was the one (and Harry has confirmed this) who suggested Harry should get some professional help. He (William) said something about putting his arms round his brother and looking after him. William has now indeed moved on, but moved on from Harry because of Harry and his wife’s behaviour. And what’s this bollocks about Kate not getting the same flack as Meghan. Did you hibernate from January to March this year?

edited to make meaning clearer

The flack I meant at the time they were in the UK - the comparisons between Kate and Meghan during the 'fab four' period. The treatment of Meghan by the press that reminded him of his mum's press treatment and allegedly pushed Harry over the edge to leave.

"The treatment of Meghan by the press". What, he wanted and expected only favourable coverage? He wanted to stop free speech?
If you're bothered about an article about avocados in the Daily Mail, then you don't have much to worry about.

Anyway. They've left.
Have they achieved their aim of only having positive press coverage?

And William issued a statement in support of his brother asking the press to leave Meghan alone. This was unprecedented. Harry didn’t ask the press to leave Kate alone when she was being harassed before her marriage. Nor has he asked the Squad to leave her alone following her cancer diagnosis. Harry’s concerns over press and social media treatment only work one way

The Sussex's were proven to have leaked stories to Omid Scobie and her friends were allowed 'to leak' about a private letter to her father.

Someone mentioned Dan Wooton, not sure if it was this thread, but Dan Wooton had the proof he was tipped off about their exit from the Sussex's themselves, I do wonder if it was via Scobie ! While they actually Scobie and Wooton hate each other now, I don't think it was always like that.

Byline Times were forced to retract and pay compensation to DW after he was able to prove the leak came from the Sussex's.

I really dont think he could ever come back. Not as a working Royal. He would probably live in obscurity like Andrew as the black sheep. That's all he could hope for. If Charles dies, I can't imagine William would ever welcome him back in any shape or form, or offer him a house on the Royal estate.

Wills and Kate barely do anything, surely half 'the work' would be nothing?

They are becoming figures of ridicule - they are not even top story on the DM 😂 someone's stolen iPhone has that. People are yawning and thinking " oh for god's sake will they stop with this pretending they are Royal. They are just money grabbers and she is an attention seeker"

@IsoldeWagner has everyone also forgotten that the queen suspected they would not be coming back from canada/usa? they had taken their dogs to canada! kennels, quarantine??? who takes a dog on holiday for 6 weeks and does that??? also, I genuinely feel that the investigation into the bullying allegations should be published in full so everyone can draw their own conclusions!! harry is thick as mince but managed to remember every single thing in his life and told meghan. meghan apparently knew all the workings of the royal family within 18 months and got most of them wrong! why does an interviewer not throw in the awkward questions on camera and demand answers from them both? I think meghan thought she was being given frogmore house and not frogmore cottage! they wanted a wing in windsor castle, not an apartment!! she has ideas above her station!! harry needs to get his balls out of meghans handbag for a change. the way she thinks she should always pushes him out of the way to introduce herself first to people and take precedence over him annoys the piss out of me!

Is this true? I always thought that whoever leaked it were the ones with most to gain. In my mind this was Harry and Meghan as they wanted it to happen now and weren’t willing to wait. I didn’t know there was proof though.

She had an unrealistic viewpoint and therefore delusional ideas.

I don't think the British public will forgive Harry. The image of the boy walking behind the coffin and the subsequent whinging about it. The image of his grandmother sat alone at the funeral of the man who had been by her side all her adult life - only six weeks after the Oprah interview. And the brat and his wife tearing the institution that his grandparents had devoted their life to keeping going. The press were pretty vile to The Queen and Prince Phillip in September 1997. They had to change and become more relatable to the public.
No retirement at 65 they kept going. The Queen right up until her death.
Yet even then they still tried to make it about them.
I don't have time for Charles and Camilla but Harry is not championing his mother. William is by being dutiful and a family man. Diana came from the aristocracy she was quite used to the idea of the eldest son inheriting the lot - she saw her dad and brother become The 8th and 9th Earl Spencer.
The wider family will not forgive him.

I presume it is true, DW is on record as saying it came directly from the Sussex's and he had the receipts to prove it, otherwise Byline Times would not have been forced to pay compensation (which also included other false claims they made against DW).

Ha, can't believe I am talking this much shit about the RF - BUT - William is the heir, and the older brother. That is literally the bedrock of the institiution, so he has an authority that Harry does not have. So, in the scaffolding of the RF, it is entirely appropriate that he takes the 'upper hand' in terms of statements etc.

I'm not saying Harry's behaviour is rational or justified, but many on here must surely recognise that people have different experiences - or mis-remembered relationships—with different family members according to age, sex, birth order, parents stage of life at the time of your birth, etc. (Diana famously said of Harry, he was naughty like her, whereas William she saw as her counsellor. You don't have to have read much Bowlby or child psychology to recognise this might play a part in their differing grief journeys, or their emotional resilience and development. Who knows).

What Harry and William do have is the shared experience of losing their mother unexpectedly and tragically. Therefore, it is not beyond the wit of many to imagine that Harry might want William to grieve (or hold a grudge?!) in the same way that he does. eg - more wailing and gnashing of teeth maybe? But I don't think it's a competition for who is the most bereaved tbh.

It's not a competition, you're right, @commonground . Harry is different, he has reacted differently. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. It's how he has responded, and who he has hurt in the process. It's not William or Kate's fault, so why are they targets?
He's a 40 year old man with the means and opportunity to have the most effective therapy available. He doesn't really work, he's a multimillionaire, he doesn't have to go on a waiting list.
He needs to stop with the complaining and the money making from others' privacy, and move on

I am not giving you grief @commonground hope you don't think I was.
I believe William has his own grief and demons about his parents and all the others and his anger and mental health problems are there he's just not selling his story of woe.
I don't personally know him but I feel he tries to honour his mum in a quieter way.

Just because Harry wants singing doesn't mean he should get it. William isn't there to serve his brother's needs, he has a life of his own. Harry at this point is a bottomless pit of anger and need, until he sorts himself out no one can help him.

Plus, and this isn't about your post, I never understand why the emotionally stable person is always expected to be the bigger person and keep forgiving and supporting the emotionally unstable one causing hurt and mayhem. Sometimes the only thing to do is to protect your own mental health by enforcing boundaries with those who are hurting you. I think this is where William is at the moment, it is in his and his family's best interests to limit contact with Harry until Harry stops selling his family's privacy and has effective therapy for his issues.