C5 Documentary: Harry and Meghan, Rise and Fall

[IsoldeWagner]

Anyone watching this? It's on My5. I thought the first episode was interesting. I was reminded of how popular they were and how much support they got.

I have watched it. I think Harry did not make wise choices. He could have had a very quiet lovely life in the English countryside without much publicity, fairly low income but home provided, doing royal engagements or even a very quiet non royal life abroad. Anyway they are where they are and I hope the cousins at least can get to know each other. I thought it a pity the programme did not make the point MM fell out with her father and half siblings and now with the royal family which does seem to be a bit of a pattern and very sad. I would like the children to see both grandfathers on a regular basis even if the parents cannot stand the grandfathers!

I can see there being competition between William and Harry in terms of popularity because after all they’re only human. However the Sussexes’ moment in the spotlight was only ever going to be temporary, something Harry seems not to have understood. He still talks about their “platform”, as though it’s something they carry round with them. The truth is the platform was being a working royal and they stepped off it.

Now this is news to me. Wow!

The boys nanny? Diana was convinced she was sleeping with charles and spread a rumour she had an abortion which was seen as scandalous the poor girl was put through the wringer over it

Charles made a comment in a speech he should have married two wives? When they were walking down the street shaking hands everyone wanted her not him he was upset by it apparently
He was immature when he got married but no-one could have predicted the popularity of diana

Yes I've seen this too, everyone just wanted Diana, no one was interested in him

No , that comment was aimed at Camilla, not Tiggy Legg Bourke.

Harry was always more popular than William, maybe because he was seen to be more cheeky and relative, and initially Meghan was too. They were definitely the more popular couple, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a natural jealously. Kate seems lovely, but she's about as interesting as cardboard

There is no evidence whatsoever of jealousy or resentment on the part of others. I think that's what's called "projection". Perhaps William and Catherine were glad that the heat was taken off them? They're not show offs and don't display signs of self obsession.

Excellent point.

But the royal family is all about marketing, otherwise the public wouldn't have them. So if Harry and Meghan were the more popular ones it would start to become problematic. It's not surprising that a smear campaign was started on Meghan soon after by the media. Surely this is quite obvious and even people who don't like H&M can see this. I think it would be fascinating if someone were to do a documentary about the media and how it changed during this time

And perhaps this is part of it too, Harry was probably mind blown at how popular Meghan made him, they definitely were the 'IT' couple for awhile

No evidence of a smear campaign. Quite ridiculous. That's making the mistake that the others are like Harry and Meghan, ie wanting personal fame and adulation, desperate for headlines, TV shows, interviews, books.
There's a difference between promoting the work of the RF and promoting yourselves as celebrities and searching out the clicks.
The RF are the former - H&M demonstrably the latter.

I think Harry and Meghan made the mistake of believing that they were somehow special. That the popularity and interest was all about them, rather than the fact they are royal, and were the new couple and interesting.
Well, what would they be without the titles?
Nothing. Their subsequent behaviour has shown what kind of people they are. It's not very pleasant.

I don't actually like Harry or Meghan, but despite that I can apply critical thinking and could see when the tide had turned, so to speak. Reporting on Meghan and Kate on the same topics was completely different. The Royals have always been quite clever when it comes to the media, do you not know this? They have special contacts for each of the papers. Have you been living under a rock?! It's the suble things, not the obvious that gets the people onside. It's called propaganda and usually too clever for most (simple) people to spot

No need to get personal like this.
It's a discussion and opinions vary. I'm not going to stoop low.

I don't agree with that at all. Before William was married how excited was everyone about him.
I don't know Kate at all but I wouldn't judge her as boring . I think they are ultra careful to do things right and try and avoid criticism. Which they never do as they are damned if they do damned if they don't
Kate's a Capricorn and once spurned she will not forgive that is for sure. And I don't blame her.

You make it sound as if Kate had never had issues with the press. Kate and William had been together 10 years before they married. Kate had been harassed by the press, followed by a press pack shouting 'slut' and 'whore' at her just to get a reaction. Topless photos of her were published - taken not because she was dancing about topless in Ken High Street, but because some perverted pap had been lurking with a long lens a mile away from a private house where she was on holiday. Her family, especially her mother were ripped to shreds in the press.

Kate and William were incredibly popular at the time of their wedding too, but then went off to live their lives quietly for a few years, with public appearances at events like Trooping the Colour and Royal Ascot, something the Queen suggested Harry and Meghan do after they were married but which they turned down in favour if 'hitting the ground running' and look how well that turned out .

You say Kate is as interesting as cardboard. Do you mean that she doesn't shove herself into the spotlight at every opportunity to talk and be talked about? We don't really know what Kate's like - she behaves with grace and strength even when she's had the direst and the pettiest of insults thrown at her, and publically at least when faced with serious medical issues. She appears to be raising three balanced, happy children who are obviously her priority. What she doesn't do is make it all about her. I don't think it's that she's boring at all - I just think we've become so used to celebrity culture where many in the public eye spill their guts at every opportunity, create drama for column space and clicks to maintain 'relevance' and emote all over the place, so someone who doesn't seek the limelight is viewed as boring.

What's so interesting about Meghan in comparison? Is it because she once wrote a letter to Proctor and Gamble ? The number of times she's referenced this, I'm starting to think it's the most important thing she's ever done. Ironically Harry and Meghan need to generate gossip to keep themselves in the press otherwise they would just melt into obscurity. Which they really, really don't want.

Excellent points here. When you are the one who falls out consistently with people then the fault is generally with you not others!

I do love the critical thinking that has Harry as most popular and sabotaged by the royal family simultaneously, the spare to be sacrificed for the good of the heir (1st and 2nd’). Yet he was included in the Royal foundation, he became the face of Invictus, that could have easily of been taken over by William or even Charles as basically Charles controlled the purse strings. Most of what Harry did was paid for by Charles. That William included Harry as what could have been seen as a third wheel. The same with Meghan, who in a very short time frame was given high profile exposure. The powers of the institution that are so often referred to could have had Harry and Meghan doing no thrills, no news engagements. Two viewpoints running together that do not equal.

Indeed, @Vespanest . How strange to sabotage a couple by giving them so many amazing opportunities, VP of the Commonwealth Trust, many other significant patronages and noteworthy tours. Critical thinking as you say.

I still find it bizarre that Harry didn't meet Meghan's father when they were dating or engaged. Waaay before any suggestion he was selling out to the media, and when she was still posting about how amazing her dad was.

He got edited out long before he did anything that justified being cut off.

Have you ever considered that, far from being something ‘simple’ people miss, a lot of people understand these tactics perfectly well? Let’s take the notorious avocados. At some point, Catherine has eaten an avocado and the papers have written about it (why the DoC loves avocados and you should too - that kind of DM fill space crap). Later, the paper needs to fill some more columns. Avocados are going out of fashion due environmental concerns. Meghan either hasn’t got the memo (she is a bit stuck in the 90s after all) or more likely, said something about liking avocados a few years ago. Bingo! A more interesting take on Meghan and avocados than just repeating the old story but replacing Catherine with Meghan. Added bonus of a story pitting two women against each other. Space filled, papers sold, clicks.

Now I happen to think that the two most often mentioned stories, namely avocados and bump clutching, were used as sticks to beat Meghan with partly because of her irritating behaviour (especially the bump clutching - journalists would have had lots of opportunities to observe it) - but essentially it’s about creating story arcs that sell papers. It was H&M who took this crap seriously and believed it was part of a sinister plot to undermine them. The trend of building people up to knock them down has been talked about endlessly on these threads. It’s classic tabloid paper tactics. It sells more papers!

Of course the royals have relationships with the papers, but journalists do not need twirly-moustached palace men to tell them to run banal stories about Meghan and Harry.

Exactly. And I haven't seen any example provided of a negative story about Charles/William that got bumped in favour of a story about Harry/Meghan.

It makes no sense. Why would a tabloid pull a juicy story, rather than run both?

Plus there have been plenty of negative stories about Charles, Camilla, William and Catherine. The "propaganda" obviously isn't working.