C5 Documentary: Harry and Meghan, Rise and Fall

[IsoldeWagner]

Anyone watching this? It's on My5. I thought the first episode was interesting. I was reminded of how popular they were and how much support they got.

The half in half out just wouldn't work. It's like getting all the privileges with only half the work.

Which is what they wanted.

I thought DW confirmed the story came from the Sussex camp ?

I think most of the country were just happy for Harry, liked the ‘fab four’ idea, and were pleased to see the family modernised a bit. The tide started turning at Eugenie’s wedding when Meghan allegedly announced she was pregnant. I don’t believe she grabbed a tannoy and stole the limelight that day, but I do wonder why the tabloids turned on her and made it look like that.

I think they were popular because people were pleased Harry had found someone (finally) who was prepared to marry him. He was obviously in love, there was a great deal of goodwill towards them both but I don't think anyone saw them in the same way as W and K. I think people were pleased for him, they'd go away and have a minor royal duties but he'd be happy. Maybe like Mike and Zara.
I didn't for a moment think he'd be doing his own high profile Royal tours, courting the limelight, complaining about security etc. I just thought they would find a minor royal role, bring up a family and cut a few ribbons every so often.

Just finished watching. Second part in two hours.
Thank you for the recommendation.
It is so sad how it all turned out.
Proposing 18 months after they met, when they both wanted kids and she was already 36, makes sense.
Those initial visits around the UK and reactions to them as a couple were lovely. That they were going to reach a different demographic was truly exciting, as was the Royal Foundation.
Thomas Markle and those pap photos was weird as. I never understood why he hadn't been flown over a month ahead and protected from the press. But I do empathise with difficult families.
The tour was a success (protected then?)
Press start slating her on their return.
It shouldn't be that surprising that they then don't do the usual new born photo opp on the steps but, in fairness, they do do a photo call only two days after the birth. I think there were still many on MN who defended her at that point.

The timeline is very fast
2016 met
2018 married and pregnant on tour
2019 tour with 4-month-old baby/documentary PND revealed/Canada holiday
2020 resigned (Archie was 8 months old)
March 2020 last engagement with the RF (she smiles for Great Britain, pardon the pun, the others are stony-faced throughout).
As an aside, Meghan looks gorgeous in that cerulean blue dress. She's stunning in that photo. Only thing Victoria Beckham's company's designed that I genuinely love. That against the rain.

Lockdown - stays at Tyler Perry's (he has security)
Oprah interview (the price of that stay I personally think)
Bullying allegations from Oct 2018 tour (dubious timing released to smear her)
Prince Philip ill (wave of bad feeling at the timing)

You guys will know better than me how much they were worth at the point of buying very expensive property in Montecito. And how much security cost with no IPP.
I don't know how much contact there was during lockdown but at some point, they must have thought they had nothing to lose. Were not supported any longer. Content needed to make cash. Labelled grifters from then on.

I think I'm more sympathetic than most only because I know what LC/NC does to a family and how it feels to be at the receiving end of it (no, I didn't do an OW interview). Dysfunctional and toxic relationships hurt like mad. You only have to look at Stately Homes on here.
Maybe they just got fed up of being blamed, not being heard, effectively being scapegoated for everything and thought Fuck This. Once that was done, no way back. But I'm not sure there ever was a way back. If they'd lived somewhere a lot less expensive, stayed quiet, switched off all media, made no defence then they might have got invited to an occasional visit home. I think it was already too late by then, amplified by no contact during Covid personally.

Ch5 doesn't get great viewing figures in UK.

Do Ch5 programmes get picked up by any US channels? I think it would only be watched by those with an interest in either/both RF and H&M, but the reminder that the couple was positively welcomed wouldn't go amiss

(edited SPAG)

I will confess I work Saturday nights with someone who wants to watch all about the Royal Family so we watch the ch5 programmes every week. So much so I could identify Richard Kay by his voice if he walked in to our corner shop.
I feel the same as a previous poster said. Harry's sense of entitlement has been covered up a bit.
They have behaved similarly to Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson.
No wonder the poor Queen didn't pick up the phone to them. I feel very angry how they managed to put this trauma on their elderly relatives in their dieing days. It's very sad and I can't see any way back for them. They are not wanted here.

They weren't "blamed" for anything.
They weren't "not heard".

Maybe they just got fed up of being blamed, not being heard, effectively being scapegoated for everything and thought Fuck This

Blamed and scapegoated for what?

Within families there's always a Golden Child and always a Scapegoat.
Just the fact that their emigration was called Megxit by the press for crying out loud, like she was Yoko flaming Ono!

I think they were blamed for the discord within the family, for the split itself, for not going quietly, for not playing the game, for not keeping up appearances, for not keeping shtum about mental health, for not playing ball with the press, for defending themselves publicly when no one else was going to.

but

I don't know them or the triangulation or the family or how it was for both of them. I do know about dysfunction and depression though. Whilst I think their privilege protects them more than it does the hoi polloi me I can still have sympathy I hope.

I love them. They’ve been vilified for speaking out against the bullying by the gutter press and the refusal of the RF to stop it.

There really isn't always a golden child and a scapegoat ffs I love and despair of all my children (mostly despair)

Well, I guess I'd say to that, how do any of us know?
Siblings feel slighted. Siblings feel wronged. Siblings argue. We see it on MN all the time.
You tend not to air your dirty laundry in public. In dysfunctional families, it's kind of drilled in. I personally think they thought: this isn't right or fair how it's all been shown. It wasn't like that. This is my side.

It's also not like they were the first. Both Diana and Charles had books out and did interviews (or were manipulated into doing them) putting their side across. I think most of them wanted to be heard. I'm sure the Queen was right in keeping a dignified silence - that only went against her once when Diana died, oh and Prince Andrew, and the butler guy - but I can't help but think some decision-making at the time of January 2000 was influenced by what it would all look like and how the press would report it than what would be right in the long-term for her grandchildren/great grandchildren.

They were part of a working family. That work environment has rules. They wanted to upend all the rules and when they were told no, they wanted to leave but keep all the privileges and perks of working for that family. No one was scapegoating them. Nor did they stand up to the press. They wanted (and still want) a one sided relationship with the media whereby they are feted and showered with constant praise, without any criticism. As for speaking out about mental health, Harry was involved with the Heads Together initiative with his brother and his SiL well before Meghan appeared on the scene. William has spoken about how working for the air ambulance affected his mental health well before the Sussexes spoke on the subject. And Harry wasn’t exactly helpful when his own wife expressed her own mental health crisis to him when pregnant, was he?

sorry, in dysfunctional families I meant
I'm glad yours isn't
I despair of all mine too. My favourite is the one who's quietest!

My husband and I don't agree. He says she planned to hook him and marry him for the fame and the money, and her intention was always to go back to America and monetise it.
I don't altogether disagree with him - why did she keep Sunshine Sachs on, why all the celebs at the wedding including Oprah? But I wonder if she thought she would be a Disney Princess, living in a castle, her pick of the jewels, equal billing with the rest of the royals etc, none of this walking behind someone due to rank stuff, and was disappointed not to get it. And dozy Harry didn't enlighten her otherwise as he was utterly besotted by her and didn't want to lose her. Who knows. Well, she does!

The RF cannot control the press!
Did you watch the programme?

The people seemed to love them but the press were awful.
Doing the interviews and documentaries have lost them a lot. No one trusts someone who vilifies and airs all their family's faults in public like that. No matter how much truth there is in that. They did it for financial gain and no one wants to be in their next documentary. I don't think they can really come back from this.

I think you might both be right. I think she thought she’d be a Disney princess but would be able to live where she pleased (or at least go backwards and forwards as much as she liked) and make money out of her new position. Hence the desire to live in Windsor castle. She thought her star power was such that the RF would bend to her will, and that she would be able to take her Princess status and merch it in the USA as well

I can't find this anywhere.

I watch this back and wonder why their departure was made all about race and racism and victimisation by some when it was anything but that. It was said in that documentary as being ‘high theatre’. In my opinion it was just exactly that.

I believe it was all about a genuine disenchantment that they were down the pecking order and not quite as feted as they thought they should be. I believe he is responsible for sowing that seed.

I do not believe it to be about family toxicity or being the family scapegoat.

I think the problem was simply that his inner, and up to then private, petulant Prince stood up to be counted. And hauled in his missus for the ride.

Reports of bullying behaviour and the like from her? She wouldn’t have known about having ‘staff’. Could she have been just taking her lead from him? Still no excuse to be rude or make people unhappy of course but it seems plausible. He has an air of entitlement shining round him.

The bitterness and anger on Harry’s face on some shots are astonishing. More so when you contrast that with his joy at Archie’s birth announcement.

Misery loves company they say. I wonder if misery and bitterness are comfortable bedfellows? It wouldn't be for me.

As a poc, I thought her skin tone quite beautiful. I would, of course, as it is not too dissimilar to mine.

It disappoints me to see her radically change her skin tone with so much bronzer. More so when it is only her face. It saddens me. It makes me think she does not feel enough to be just as she is. Has he fed that to her at all?

I wonder if blaming things on her being victimised and racism made her feel she wasn’t quite enough as she was. Or that she should try to be something different? That would be awful.

He has form for making things the fault of others or circumstance. He has form for letting her down.

Hell, they both have form for blaming others for their own actions or inactions.

Part 2 should be interesting.

Apologies for the meandering.

So why did they want to remain part of a family that - allegedly- didn’t protect them ?

@BehindTheSequinsandStilettos . No evidence at all for that! Just because Harry claims it, it's not necessarily true. The man is absolutely paranoid. Of course they never briefed against him!