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The royal family

Catherine, The Princess Of Wales : The Biography

157 replies

StrawberriesandCreamTea · 31/07/2024 12:39

Anyone reading this new book about Catherine?

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StrawberriesandCreamTea · 01/08/2024 09:19

Serenster · 01/08/2024 08:14

the trail of information is there from interviews, books, sources, publishers etc..

In other words “a lot of people have made this accusation now, despite having no direct knowledge of what happened, and so although all these accounts are speculative I’m choosing to believe it because I want to…”.

Malicious gossip repeated does not become verified just because it’s prevalent!

Isn’t that what it all is, gossip? How do we know anything about royal life if it were not for the newspapers such as The Times, The Guardian and The Telegraph and royal experts? Or television documentaries. Harry’s book will enter the historical record too.

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sausawyee · 01/08/2024 09:19

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 01/08/2024 01:44

There is zero evidence that anything racist was said by Catherine or anyone else.

Meghan said during the Oprah interview (when it was just the two of them speaking) that they (H&M) were being told that Archie would not get a title, would not get security and that “in tandem” there were “conversations and concerns” about the colour of his skin. She did not characterise this as racist, but told Oprah that’s what she could infer from it. This is the statement the press ran with as evidence of racism (and for which H&M later picked up a Ripple of Hope award from the Robert F Kennedy Foundation).

We know Meghan lied about the title and security parts of that statement. Archie had titles at birth. He was not entitled to be a prince because of the letters patent and his not being the grandson of the reigning monarch. So the “racism” claim was tacked into a lie.

When Harry entered the interview with Oprah, not only did he come across as completely blindsided by her asking him about the conversations about Archie’s skin colour, he also made it clear it’s not something he wanted to talk about, and that it was a conversation - singular - that occurred when he and Meghan were not even married, and she was not present. No further detail of the content of that conversation was ever provided. Not in the Netflix doc. Not in Spare. This apparently hugely consequential conversation was not so much as mentioned in either of H&M’s most important projects leaking details about the RF.

They nevertheless allowed the press to run with the racism narrative (and collect their award), but did take the opportunity to brief Gail King (Oprah’s bestie) that neither the Wueen or Prince Philip were involved. Harry did not take the opportunity to further clarify the conversation until Harry’s press tour for Spare and interview with Tom Bradby, where he said there was no racism, just unconscious bias, and the racism charge was all the going of the press. Again, no further details were given by Harry of the exact content of that conversation, and to this day we do not know what it was about.

Harry as a reliable witness on other people’s “unconscious bias”. I don’t think so. In his Spare interview with Stephen Colbert, he spoke of his fear that Meghan’s genes (presumably her African American ones from her mother, rather than her blond/blue eyed European ones from her father) would out muscle his ginger genes (his use of the word ginger) and expressed his relief that didn’t happen. How about Meghan? In the Netflix doc, we have her and Harry talking about their children’s looks. Archie is described as looking like Meghan (and presumably Doria) in the most dismissive of statements. Whereas Meghan waxes lyrical about Lily’s “blue, blue, blue” eyes like Diana’s. Now, if you were from Meghan’s African American family, how would that make you feel?

So where does Catherine come in? Omid Scobie’s Dutch publication of Endgame, a “mistake” that could only have come from him but which he repeatedly denied until it became ridiculous to do so. And what is that content? Leaked paraphrasing of a letter sent from Meghan to Charles, the content of which can only have come from one source into Scobie’s hands, Meghan. And who does it refer to? The “Princess of Wales”. Who at the time of the alleged conversation occurring all that time ago before H&M’s wedding was Camilla, albeit a title not used by her. Catherine was not the POW at that time and was never named in Endgame as being the person in question.

Whatever dot joining exercise has been done leaves no discernible picture of anything bearing semblance to a credible accusation. All the dots are concentrated messily around Meghan and the narrative she wanted the world to believe. And frankly, she does not have a track record for truth, any more than Scobie.

This is such an excellent account of what happened! It deserves repeating hence why I am quoting the whole thing.

StrawberriesandCreamTea · 01/08/2024 09:22

BorisJohnsonsPhysique · 01/08/2024 00:49

I actually agree with the idea that Philip was a product of his time and class, and probably harboured no malice. However he said things he shouldn’t have, often causing offence, and those things often involved racial or national stereotypes that anyone representing the UK internationally should have avoided.

But I wanted to push back at the idea that somehow the media never described him as racist until after his death. That’s just untrue. There was a period in his old age when his history was discussed in less hostile tones, probably as a result of his age and the fact that he had stopped making such high profile comments, but throughout the 80s and 90s there was frequent press commentary on him that clearly described him as a racist.

I think this is fair regarding hostility. Nowadays everyone is a keyboard warrior on something.

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StrawberriesandCreamTea · 01/08/2024 09:24

We know Meghan lied about the title and security parts of that statement.

No we do not know this.

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Galoop · 01/08/2024 09:26

Omg. Why do these royal threads end up the same way going on and on about H&M! Get over it 😵‍💫🤯

smilesy · 01/08/2024 09:30

Whatever dot joining exercise has been done leaves no discernible picture of anything bearing semblance to a credible accusation. All the dots are concentrated messily around Meghan and the narrative she wanted the world to believe. And frankly, she does not have a track record for truth, any more than Scobie.

it is definitely a pattern on behalf of the Sussexes that they put out a lot of ambiguous statements, which are enough to lead people to certain conclusions, but which they can backtrack on later when they are proven to be false. By that time, however, many people have swallowed the original story

VisitationRights · 01/08/2024 09:35

Besides marrying into an anachronistic institution has she really done anything of note to warrant a biography?

EmpressOfTheThread · 01/08/2024 09:37

@Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar at 01.44
That's an excellent post. It really clarifies the situation, thank you.

StrawberriesandCreamTea · 01/08/2024 09:42

Sunnydaysandthebeach · 01/08/2024 09:32

At the time there was excellent coverage about reactions to the Meghan and Harry documentary, eg

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64009156.amp

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/19/harry-meghan-netflix-documentary-us-reaction-uk

This stood out to me,

”The American writer Roxane Gay, who covered the series in a New York Times opinion piece, responded: “The way these British folks are obsessed with Meghan Markle is wild. You just know every damn thing Meghan and Harry said in their doc was true. I would bet they held back.””

x.com

https://twitter.com/rgay/status/1604245357260685313?s=20&t=t6M75yVyF5JTJMErpvXPDA

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Wellieswithsocks · 01/08/2024 09:42

People have been discussing this on Twitter, perhaps it’s mentioned in the book?

An incident at QEII’s funeral where Meghan tapped Catherine on the hand

Honestly, the audacity

#short Meghan gentle tap on Catherine's hand as she passes #meghan #kate

#short Meghan gentle tap on Catherine's hand as she passes #meghan #kateThanks for watching💕💕💕✔Please subscribe my channel: https://www.youtube.com/channe...

https://youtu.be/ac6nOH967Jg?si=Gfb6CEtrRC2-_EP3

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 01/08/2024 10:05

StrawberriesandCreamTea · 01/08/2024 09:24

We know Meghan lied about the title and security parts of that statement.

No we do not know this.

Then she must be stupid. To not understand that Archie would be protected by his parents’ security detail. To not understand how letters patent work, and a very simple grandparent rule bestowing the title of prince and princess.

EmpressOfTheThread · 01/08/2024 10:08

How could she not know that? The whole thing was presented as racism on the part of the RF, for which they were happy to collect an "award".
Even though it's been proven not to be true, there has been no retraction nor apology.

Mylovelygreendress · 01/08/2024 10:13

StrawberriesandCreamTea · 01/08/2024 09:24

We know Meghan lied about the title and security parts of that statement.

No we do not know this.

Archie was entitled to be Earl of Dumbarton at birth . Harry and Meghan knew that . I simply don’t believe no one told them that during these mysterious discussions.
They wanted him to be Prince from birth the same as the then Cambridge children . Another example of wanting the same status as W and C .
Linking it to skin colour was plain nasty .

EmpressOfTheThread · 01/08/2024 10:16

Nasty, damaging and a vile lie.

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 01/08/2024 10:17

Mylovelygreendress · 01/08/2024 10:13

Archie was entitled to be Earl of Dumbarton at birth . Harry and Meghan knew that . I simply don’t believe no one told them that during these mysterious discussions.
They wanted him to be Prince from birth the same as the then Cambridge children . Another example of wanting the same status as W and C .
Linking it to skin colour was plain nasty .

Quite, and that is the key. The use of the phrase “in tandem” to suggest this child would be denied protection and a title due to the colour of his skin. An utterly repulsive claim.

Dabralor · 01/08/2024 10:22

Urgh, don't give these odious royal 'experts' your money- the royals must hate all these trashy books!

If you go on mail online and click on the serialised articles, you can read the juiciest bits for free if you click immediately on airplane mode.
That way, you can read trash about Kate for free whilst also annoying the people at the daily mail- what more could you ever wish for!

StrawberriesandCreamTea · 01/08/2024 11:06

Dabralor · 01/08/2024 10:22

Urgh, don't give these odious royal 'experts' your money- the royals must hate all these trashy books!

If you go on mail online and click on the serialised articles, you can read the juiciest bits for free if you click immediately on airplane mode.
That way, you can read trash about Kate for free whilst also annoying the people at the daily mail- what more could you ever wish for!

Airplane mode - who knew? 😊 Thanks.

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StrawberriesandCreamTea · 01/08/2024 11:09

“ RFKHR President Kerry Kennedy said the royal couple had been "incredibly brave" in addressing the issues of mental illness and racial justice.”

“Prince Harry has also said he had to step back from royal duties to protect himself and his family from the "toxic" situation created by the UK press.”

I agree with both these statements.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63883074.amp

Britain's Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, Meghan, Duchess of Sussex attend the 2022 Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights Ripple of Hope Award Gala in New York City, US, on 6 December 6, 2022

Harry and Meghan win human rights award - BBC News

The couple were honoured in New York for their racial justice and mental health work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63883074.amp

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DreamyBird · 01/08/2024 11:17

Unfortunately, for years we had the older white male in a grey suit forever advising an ancient institution. The UK changed and the palace still has a tin ear. There is also a considerable lack of diversity training within the royal compound. Every time they are called out they circle the wagons which does not help the fight against unconscious biases. I find it more than a little coincidental that Catherine was encouraged to appear in November supported by William in such an over the top display of protecting Catherine. Meanwhile, the world moves on and the British Royals slip further down the list of being relevant to the next generation.

EmpressOfTheThread · 01/08/2024 11:26

@StrawberriesandCreamTea he didn't step back though, did he?
If the press is so toxic, why not have a low profile life? Why court the media and a celebrity lifestyle?

EmpressOfTheThread · 01/08/2024 11:27

@DreamyBird do you know about their training?

EmpressOfTheThread · 01/08/2024 11:31

Also, I would disagree with Kennedy about their "bravery" re: mental health. According to the Oprah interview, Harry was singularly inept and ineffective when Meghan expressed a suicide ideation. Not just the fact that Harry didn't help, he actually got her to dress up, that very evening and attend an event at the Royal Albert Hall.
So, worse than helpful or brave. He got an award for that level of insensitivity and negligence?.

Mylovelygreendress · 01/08/2024 11:35

@StrawberriesandCreamTea

He didn’t step back because of the toxic press. He flounced off because he didn’t get his own way .
Things haven’t panned out as he imagined and now he wants back in the Royal fold.

LuluBlakey1 · 01/08/2024 11:45

DreamyBird · 31/07/2024 23:09

I saw a woman who did not understand her own part in what took place between the two households that led to bad feelings. Even the comment ‘recollections may vary’ which was the immediate response is now known to have been Catherine’s and it shows her inherent denial that what she said caused offence to Meghan. The fact that it was immediately in a press notice signed off by the Queen shows conversations did take place and Meghan did not lie. It also shows how quickly the institution acts when it wants to protect both its image and its primary principals. Harry and Meghan must have once again realised just how the institution will react regarding its own interests and public facing image. Hopefully, the letters passed between Charles and Meghan will have resolved matters and that hurt feelings are no longer an issue for either side.

How it is 'known' to be Kate's comment? I hope not because Robert Jobson says so. This whole book will be a mish-mash of 'a source close to', 'a friend of', 'an ex-member of staff who once worked at', 'it is now widely accepted that' with no evidence whatsoever. They fill this sort of tat with things that only one person or two people know the real truth of and neither will ever confirm or deny. In this case HM the late Queen is dead and Kate will not ever tell- either way. She very much goes along the 'never complain, never explain' route with family dramas and rumours. So Jobson can write whatever he likes to make up- he's clever enough to do that in a 'limited way'. Anyway, HM the Queen would not have agreed to it if it did not suit her to have it published as her words. It was a very telling remark and must have, at the very least, summed up their view.