I’ve always wondered about this photograph…

[LadyPenelopeForever]

…his expression is open to many interpretations.

I took a while to notice. I'm a lightweight republican (in the anti-monarchist sense). I found myself being nauseated by Andrew and fully expecting Harry and Meghan to do something or say something to distance themselves from the whole debacle, especially after they had left for North America at around the same time that things were hotting up for Andrew and, via alleged financial connections, the Yorks (from late 2019 / first half of 2020).

There was tumbleweed. In fact we heard how close H&M remained to certain members of the house of York, a famously close-knit family of four.

H&M's exit statements about 'collaborating' with the Head of State (the Queen), 'service is universal' and 'no-one owns the terms royal' [paraphrasing] gave me pause for thought. They seemed ridiculous and rash.

As matters progressed and we have witnessed all the interviews, books, articles, documentaries, and news reports giving us Harry and Meghan's own words, and further witnessed the accretion of royal titles and awards for themselves and their infants, I came to revise my position to a major degree.

I find the Sussex set-up, from the principles down to the bottom of the hierarchy, and across to their various 'contacts in high places', to be fascinating in their (now) increasingly obvious venality and moral turpitude.

I still felt some sympathy for Meghan and her mother regarding Harry's behaviour during and after the 'near-catastrophic' car chase, but that has waned now that neither H&M have addressed the issues of the online bullying of, and death threats toward, Catherine and Sean Lennon.

The final straw has been the continuing hypocrisy, dishonesty and switcheroos over the 'racism' allegations from H&M themselves, right the way down through their fan-base chain. I may be a republican but that doesn't mean that I can't despise malice towards members of a royal family especially when it appears to be an undemocratic, underhand way of destabilising of the UK's system of Head of State, while at the same time Harry talks down the American Constitution on US soil.

The situation seems to be close to reaching critical mass, to a degree that lots of people cannot take their eyes off the unfolding of the narrative. That's not popularity.

The final straw has been the continuing hypocrisy, dishonesty and switcheroos over the 'racism' allegations from H&M themselves, right the way down through their fan-base chain. I may be a republican but that doesn't mean that I can't despise malice towards members of a royal family especially when it appears to be an undemocratic, underhand way of destabilising of the UK's system of Head of State, while at the same time Harry talks down the American Constitution on US soil.

AS a mild-mannered monarchist, I agree with you.

Talk of any kind of reconciliation between Harry and his family seems utterly tone-deaf to me. I just cannot get over the calculated malice of what was said in the OW interview. At first I thought: how awful to make such a terrible accusation on a world stage but be so vague - thus incriminating the whole RF (but sucking up the QEII by clarifying that it wasn't her). Then, when they backtracked, I thought : you nasty, nasty pair.

If I were Catherine or KC, I'd just never be able to forgive people (especially family members) me a racist on international TV. Not everything IS forgivable, and there can be no way back for H & M with the RF.

After all they've done, I guess that to me the most appalling is their disingenuousness about the seriousness of it. I don't agree with one of the Sqaddies upthread that it's made the UK hated across the world, but their spurious allegations did this country damage and played into the hands of all kinds of hostile agencies.

On the one level, H & M are endlessly entertaining, and I do enjoy watching their antics, but I can't simply laugh because their malice and stupidity has done real and lasting harm to individuals and to the UK.

Such a great post and I completely agree with you. Our opinions also seem to have changed at the same time, and you have articulated it way better than I could have.

Another mild monarchist here

After all they've done, I guess that to me the most appalling is their disingenuousness about the seriousness of it. I don't agree with one of the Sqaddies upthread that it's made the UK hated across the world, but their spurious allegations did this country damage and played into the hands of all kinds of hostile agencies

This is the bit that concerns me. It's not 'hate' to realise that this pair of idiots is getting into bed with people who can cause real damage to the UK geopolitically. I notice that all the big names like the Obamas seem to be distancing themselves.

I notice that all the big names like the Obamas seem to be distancing themselves.

Indeed - I think they're very shrewd! Michelle Obama is a million miles from the Montecito Babe.

Gosh, I'm going misty-eyed now at the though of the Obamas. What statesmanship, genuine charisma and dignity...what is wrong in the US that, with their huge population, they can only come up with Biden and Trump? Mind you, let's see if the UK can do much better.

It’s exactly why I’m not a republican @CoffeeCantata! Although I’d have the Obamas as our head of state any day. 😃 When I think of the political landscape of this country at the moment, I’m really grateful for the stability and constant of our Royal Family.

MummyJ12

Our opinions also seem to have changed at the same time, and you have articulated it way better than I could have.

I have to say my opinon has changed over time too.
I started off as a mild republican, but certainly not one would would wish to live through a revolution and/or civil war, and certainly the sort to enjoy looking at a bit of pageantry and historical bling 👑
Now, having seen how well the RF have coped under the onslaught they've had of malicious gossip, cancer diagnoses and general bad times, I find myself a mild royalist.
Added to that, being part of a population that a small but vocal faction are trying to dub racist and of a country that's being referred to in very insulting terms, I'm finding myself somewhat patriotic.
I'm not going to go and wave a flag or anything, but my reaction to that unpleasant, ranty, spittle-flecked post earlier today was: Steady on! It's/we're really not that bad.
Although it was interesting to see the "Lol! 🤣 " mask drop and the absolute hate (which is a word I don't use lightly) emerge.
Presumably due to being frustrated at not getting very far.

Absolutely @LaMarschallin!
I love how, the more malicious and evil the pro Sussex camp are, the more popular and beloved the Royal Family are becoming. It was very evident after Scobie Doos pile of poo, endgame which ironically was his endgame!
As Michelle Obama famously said, “They go low, we go high!” 💗

When I think of the political landscape of this country at the moment, I’m really grateful for the stability and constant of our Royal Family.

Yes - me too!

There are other people who, for me personally, have always been in the background of my life (David Attenborough, Judi Dench for eg) and I know they are now very advanced in years. I absolutely dread their passing! I lost my parents some years ago and I suppose a pyschologist would say I'm looking at them as a kind of parent-substitute.

Possibly, but the RF represent dependable continuity - something which is there in the background of our lives, often reflecting the ups and downs and rites of passage which we all go through, despite so much changing so rapidly.

That's why I expect young people to be anti-monarchists - I know I used to laugh at my parents and grandparents for watching Trooping the Colour etc. But since I've got older and the world seems so crazy, I'm always glad to see KC's jowly face and Princess Anne's no-nonsense attitude - and to see a younger generation coming up.

Yes @CoffeeCantata , I never really cared before but they have been there my entire life, I still can't believe how sad I was when the queen died!!! Me !!!
I actually cried!!!

Yes, I've certainly moderated my position re republicanism. The UK requires stability, and deserves stability. Any move toward a republic itself requires a stable, democratic and transparent consultation process and full parliamentary debate and decision. There is no place for side-swiping malice in the process.

In fact the monarchy has been strengthened by how it has resisted the malice and, this past week, got on with 'the job' of ceremonial representation.

I accept the monarchy is here to stay for my lifetime, certainly. And I feel more kindly disposed to Charles, William and Catherine as a result of the 'racism' bait & switch inflicted upon them.

I have just read some very good posts.

I especially liked the mention of 'moral turpitude' because they are two words which I don't often hear and I probably met them for the only other time when I filled in a form in an aeroplane which was due to land in the USA.

I also think that the words 'calculated malice' are true, in relation to the OW interview.

I accept the monarchy is here to stay for my lifetime, certainly. And I feel more kindly disposed to Charles, William and Catherine as a result of the 'racism' bait & switch inflicted upon them.

It's ironic, isn't it, that some of the most progressive countries in Europe still have monarchies. I accept they may need to rein things back a bit for various reasons and perhaps give up some of the homes, but I think we'd be the poorer, culturally and even politically, as a nation if we lost the RF completely. The monarch is supposed to be above politics, and I always thought it was funny that (though we might guess that the Queen was a Tory at heart) the PM she got on with best was Harold Wilson! Churchill and Harold Wilson were the only ones she 'socialised' with on a personal level.

It will depend on lots of things, not least just how many working royals there are going to be in the future, and it may well be that William himself is keen to move to a more Scandinavian model after his father is gone.

Michelle is right.
You can't get much lower than the behaviour of the Sussexes, or their mouthpiece, Omid Scobie.
It's good that the RF are going "high"!

Some excellent and thoughtful posts here. Michelle Obama - the woman is a legend imo. What wise words from her.

That's the photo where he looks like his grandad Tobias Menzies.

Ah, truly marvellous posts here - and I shall have to try to weave the “moral turpitude” phrase into everyday conversation!

I agree that the rf are a point of stability. And not only yearning for Obama, George Bush jr looks pretty good at this point 😁

It's remarkable when you think about all this, that the monarchy have survived all the accusations from H&M and their 'fan-base' of racism, adultery and absenteeism, and are coming out of it all looking resilient, tightly-knit and stoic. Impressive.

I can't think that Planet Sussex have much more left in their armoury to try out, without looking increasingly detached from reality.

IMO the only thing H&M could offer at this stage of any worth are statements about Andrew. Andrew is still the royal family's achilles' heel, and always will be by the looks of it.

AutumnCrow · Yesterday 23:59

Indeed! I wonder what will happen about the bullying allegations against M & H? I expect the threat of making these public will act as some kind of a deterrent for them to go too far. But if gloves come off completely, Meghan has already hinted that she's not bound by any confidentiality agreement, though I'm not sure what else she alone could come up with that she hasn't already.

I suppose, if Harry really decided to throw a tantrum and give up on his family completely, he might have some material relating to Andrew etc.

We don't know 9do we? - I may not be up to speed) if there's been any contact between Meghan and KC - possibly in relation to the children - but if there has, I just cannot imagine what it would've been like! Through Meghan, Charles and Catherine have been branded racists to the world - can they really have had any kind of cordial interaction with Meghan since then?

Diana would be gutted that her boys have fallen out.
That her grandchildren in William and Harry's families, the cousins, will probably have no relationship with each other.
I'm sure Charles is.

Call me a cynic but I suspect if there was contact between the Montecito family and the RF in the U.K. , we would hear about it .

@MaturingCheeseball while I realize you are joking, Bush Jr. started two, to me, unnecessary and very long wars. I really don't want a repeat of the Bush Jr. years.

Of course we would.

@BemusedAmerican - I was joking.

@MaturingCheeseball some things should not be joked about. (Said semiseriously)😁