Duchy of Lancaster Theft

[Roussette]

Just when I thought I could not be more taken aback at some of the practices undertaken by our Monarchy, and the sheer greed.

I then read this article. Bottom line.... anyone who dies intestate in Lancashire, and parts of Merseyside, Grtr Manchester, Cheshire and Cumbria... their assets are scooped up by the Duchy of Lancaster who has collected more than £60M over the last 10 years. Not charity as is the norm.. but into the pocket of our King You need to read the article to see what he actually does with it and how it benefits his personal income.

The article explains it well and will answer any questions and queries about it.

Someone yesterday accused me of 'despising' the RF. I disagreed but I am beginning to wonder if that poster was right. Especially when I read something like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/23/revealed-king-charles-secretly-profiting-from-the-assets-of-dead-citizens?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

People suddenly discover what Bona Vacantia is, and are outraged. About 900 years after it is introduced, mind…

I honestly shocked people in UK think it will be left to charities with no will -

Thats apparently what they have said they would do with the money, there are 3 charities named in the articles on this today-

Still don't get this people know if they want to leave money they need to put it in a will - that is widely publicised - expectation is no will it goes to family - which is along drawn out bureaucratic nightmare of it's own and why wills are pushed as needed. Beyond that everyone I knows thinks no relative it goes the the crown/state - and beyond that I've never met anyone with expectation it will go to charities - despite what some newspaper/announcement/poster on here claim.

Getting people to make wills is the way forward - in fact I think is a push in media at minute to go further and get people to think more about power of attorney and getting those in place as well.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23939761.martin-lewis-explains-wills-lasting-power-attorney/#:~:text=You%20may%20be%20thinking%20%22This,lost%20capacity%2C%20it's%20too%20late.

It is outrageous. I also think we shouldn't see it as just a bit 'sneaky'. It is plain dishonest to use these funds on private businesses to enrich the King.

It does read like that.

Though anything that again highlights need for a will - and increasingly a power of attorney can't be a bad idea.

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

I thought it went to charities chosen by the Crown.
I don't need royal news, but I am sure I read this is what happens.

It does read like that.

Wait til they find out about Escheat…

I’ll also point out, mildly, that so far as I am aware every modern state has developed a solution to deal with this problem, and they all work on more or less the same principles..

I think its immoral for an extremely wealthy powerful family to hire a firm to look around for people who die without wills, even those with very little, they'll still take it. Theres something so distasteful about a billionaire putting his hand out for £5,000, £10,000... from ordinary people who weren't aware he was entitled to do that. Its grubby.
Yep. Greed is vulgar. No class whatsoever.

The duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall retained the custom of collecting the assets of those dying without a will in their historical domains. This practice was only formalised into law in 1925, when parliament passed an act on the administration of wills. A short clause in this act from nearly a century ago gave the duchies the legal authority to collect the surviving assets of dead people. Why this was done is not known. Parliament did not debate the act when it was passed and there appear to be no surviving records relating to the decision in the National Archives, the government’s main depository for historical documents.

Say what now???

Charities are renowned for being very keen on getting every penny from estates. To the point they will question the cost of the wake by going through the invoice. Plus they pay some staff (not all) high salaries from these donations.

I work in probate and have been quite shocked by the behaviour of some charities.

Anyway, make a will people!

So because so many of you are outraged, you all have Wills?

Let's be honest the people who are well, have no family and don't have a will just don't care who gets their assets when they die. If they did they would have bothered to wrote a will. Heir hunters make money from tracking down relatives entitled to the money. The DOL do this because it is the law, I don't think they charge a %, like heir hunters.

Also if it takes effort to find an heir, then the decreased person has obviously lost contact with family and without considerable effort would Never have received the assets.... The example about the property being cleared and lost momentos clearly shows the son didn't care to visit while the parent lived but afterwards was a hypocrite.

This isn’t something the current members of the RF started or one they can stop, as it’s well beyond the scope of their practical powers. It’s a by-product of the fact that we haven’t had a thorough constitutional shake-up in the past several years. It’s pretty shit but it’s a relic of the feudal system that’s never been changed, not just the King being a bastard. I expect it suits him rather well and dead people can’t complain.

Well, in the interests of accuracy, it isn’t people who die intestate, but neither is it people who die intestate with no blood relatives. It is people who die intestate, with no blood relatives who have been traced. And it’s the last bit that is problematic when the likes of Farrer & Co, working on behalf of the monarchy, don’t manage to trace the legal heirs of the estates they then appropriate on behalf of the Monarch. In the case of Julian Talbot, he did have a living blood relative, Farrer & Co just didn’t locate him. John Talbot wasn’t impossible to find, clearly, because ‘heir hunters’ traced him. The heir hunters had an incentive to find him…Farrer & Co had an incentive to not find him. And that is a problem. And as to whether anyone thinks that John Talbot, estranged from his father and unaware of his death, didn’t deserve the money either - it’s completely irrelevant, he is the legal heir.

It also costs a lot of money to deal with the administration of an estate left with no-one to inherit it. Someone has to have the responsibility of taking it on, dealing with the necessary formalities, clearing houses/properties etc and working out what happens next. All of that needs someone’s time and effort to do. Most people only focus on the upside of these kind of processes, and never the downsides.

Beyond that everyone I knows thinks no relative it goes the the crown/state - and beyond that I've never met anyone with expectation it will go to charities - despite what some newspaper/announcement/poster on here claim.

Theres a big difference between it going to the state, and to a single, incredibly wealthy, man/woman. Imagine if the American President personally collected all the assets of Americans without a will!

I think we've gone over the ' how do people not know this' already. Clearly people did not expect the billionaire royals to use it to find their private estates, and/or believe them when they said it would go to charity.

I have a will now, but there was a time I didn't, I had very little and no kids at the time and assumed it would go to the state. So isn't it great that this newspaper has highlighted this so people can be informed!

For those that already knew it went to the royals private wealth, perhaps you could share why you're ok with that.

I don't know why any of this surprises anyone.

The Royal family have influenced changes to 1000s of laws so that they can preserve their financial wealth in way that noone else can. Look up "Queen's consent"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/07/revealed-queen-lobbied-for-change-in-law-to-hide-her-private-wealth

I meant to add this:

It was not until the 1980s that the duchy began to say the money from bona vacantia would not enrich the queen, but instead would be donated to charity. With minimal public oversight, it has not been possible – until now – to know whether that claim was true.

Thank you I’mNunTheWiser. A very Good point. And love your ‘name’.

Of course they can stop it! They can do anything they want. They employ a legal firm to trace people without wills.

They're rather stupid, and the ultimate "benefit scroungers."

Note to self: make sure everyone knows where my will is. Do not want my estate to go into that family's pockets.

Thanks for posting the article Roussette. I’ve just read it. If this is true then I am utterly appalled and gobsmacked. Why isn’t this money being poured in to the NHS or social care or sent to a homelessness charity?

So because so many of you are outraged, you all have Wills?

Yes. And both of us both POAs (health and financial). I think if you go through hell with parents Wills (which we both did, sods law, both of us), you tend to make sure everything is sewn up watertight.

So agree with your post @ImNunTheWiser

Exactly.

Which is why posts saying... it's always been like this... so what... who cares... make a Will then...
Sort of miss the point.

If people didn't kick up about stuff that is unfair, nothing would change. Sadly, the RF have a stranglehold on the UK so nothing will change for now, but at least their greedy practices are getting more publicity.

In the conferences I've been to, the people who have special dietary requirements have their own sealed trays marked with their names. That works really well. It probably evolved from special diet people being left with nothing.

Says it all really - we are not the USA - their laws and expatiations are meaningless in the UK.

We are a constitutional monarchy -( or technically I think a theocracy ) - with a 1000 years of laws and lots of little off bits of laws.

It does't matter who you judge worthy of inheritance or what other countries do - parliament can change the law here if they choose -and IME of 40 years of living in this country ie the UK - no one would really be that surprised.

I get many posters on this thread hate the monarchy personally I'm not wild about it but I can't say this thread is convincing me to the Republicans side.

With minimal public oversight, it has not been possible – until now - to know whether that claim was true.

If you had been interested to read the Annual Report of the Duchy of Cornwall it has long been openly disclosed in that. At Note 18 to the Financial Accounts on page 80 in the 2023 Accounts, if you care to look)

I started a thread yesterday on this and left it quite quickly. It seemed that most people just didn't give a hoot.

The heir hunters had an incentive to find him…Farrer & Co had an incentive to notfind him. And that is a problem.

Just checking then - if like heir hunters, the Royal Estate’s representatives were incentivised by a huge fee to track down beneficiaries so they could make a large profit themselves, and the beneficiaries would receive less, you think that would be a better outcome?