Queen Elizabeth

[Nono22972]

No disrespect to her but people and the media often talk about her sense of duty, her stability and professionalism but what would would say are some of the things in her last 15-20 years on the throne that you would criticise her for?

My obvious response is how she handled the Prince Andrew situation and staying on the throne as long as she did. She should've abdicated 10 or 20 years before her death, in my opinion

Imagine being a young person brave enough to report what someone did, only for everyone either to not believe you, or to excuse and accuse you of making it up. That's why one of Ball's victims is not here and why one of my school mates is a drug addict who has tried to end his life many times. I find it hard to read people minimising the actions of Charles, in particular with regards to Ball because it's that kind of response from an adult that ruins the lives of children who are already living with the horrible pain of abuse.

*We know about :

1.His mentor ,father figure and relative Mountbatten has been linked to sex abuse carried out in children’s homes . Saville used hospitals . Both places with the most vulnerable children .

1. Lauren’s van der post , another mentor of Charles , impregnated a 14 year old girl .

3.Charles defended Peter Ball in writing and housed him after Ball had accepted a caution ( admitted guilt) 4.Andrew of course , in full regalia and taking part in ‘royal’ events . That is a FU to every sex abuse victim *

It's so sad and so inexcusable. Powerful people are covering up for these kind of men and the public are also looking the other way. It's so hard for victims.

@PrincessTigger and @Iwantcakeeveryday so sorry to hear about your truly awful experience

Some realistic and excellent posts on here and some unbelievable excuses too. You can't tell me that those that associate with members of the RF aren't vetted to within an inch of their lives and the RF aren't advised on dodgy connections even if it is just rumour

Bottom line for me is at times they ignore advice and undoubtedly CHOOSE to carry on friendships DESPITE advice. Because they are kings and princes and do what they want. Charles and Andrew are a case in point. Then we have Sophie and Sarah easily duped by con artists
I am not sure the RF will stand any more faux pas. Fake sheikhs, bags of cash, paedophiles and perverts... you'd think they'd learn, but no...

I can only speak for myself but I hold the people who abused me responsible for their actions

So can I, PrincessTigger, and I'm so sorry to hear it happened to you also ... and you too, Iwantcakeeveryday. It's correctly said that not all scars are visible, and how very convenient that is for those who wish to ignore, minimise or even enable

I'm also mindful of the late Queen's supposed "concern" about the Andrew/Epstein relationship, and the inescapable conclusion that he must surely have been warned, but my main point here is that if this happened with even the 6th in line to the throne, how much more likely is it that Charles as heir would have been warned about his many unsavoury friendships?

Unless of course they simply chose to say nothing and let them get on with it, in which case we're back with why Charles's normal human curiosity wouldn't have led to any enquiry about Ball's proven crimes

Thank you and 💐for you and everyone who has had these dreadful experiences. We are all parents here so I think everyone here will be in agreement on this type of issue in that we deplore it and want for these things to end. The goal is the same for all of us, even if due to experience or lack of, we differ in how we think we can end child abuse. I personally take a zero tolerance approach to anyone who in any way ignores it or continues friendships with people involved in it. I can;t see it ending any other way.

Sympathy to all 💐 , on a forum of mainly women and mothers, I imagine there is many of us who have suffered abuse or witnessed it ( myself included) . Remember you are not alone . 💐

And this abuse was prevalent across all levels of society - I know because it happened in my very working class wider family. And was ignored. I was so shocked to find out about it in my 40's, whilst those affected had become adults and trained themselves to put it to one side - with the inevitable repercussions on their health.

Thank God times are changing.

Indeed @ajandjjmum , somehow it was seen as almost unsavoury to admit it had happened and the victims either not believed or treated as the problem instead of those who were.

One mother was told by her GP that they suspected her 5 year old DD was being abused, and she did nothing about it. Nor did the GP. How could that happen?

Sorry - totally off topic!

We recently found a letter circa 1962 from a Catholic priest that he wrote to a group of parents after he was removed from their diocese and sent elsewhere. My relative was one of the recipients. These parents were people he had know for decades and whose children he had taught. My male relative had spent endless amounts of time with him. Had be the recipient of many gifts and even traveled with him. It absolutely sounds like textbook grooming.

Yet my family member denies anything inappropriate ever happened. I believe him, yet still think there was likely something wrong with this guy. The letter would be incredibly convincing if you hadn’t heard 1000 similar stories now.

I know @ajandjjmum , so many stories I've heard of mothers not believing their children , it's heartbreaking and unbelievable!
I look at my kids sometimes and I worry so much about the way the world is , what can be done? Who knows the answer?
Shouldn't it be safer now?

@AliceOlive , yes it sounds odd . It's not a new problem sadly, humans really are crap aren't we 😞

I have quite a few more related stories but since I don’t actually like you people… I’m not spilling my guts here.

Kidding!!!

This is an area where zero risk can be taken. The people that matter most are the parents, the guardians, those with first hand responsibility for children.

I don’t know what can be done by anyone else.

Anyone see the thread about the child hanging out in her 22 year old male cousin’s bedroom? So many posters attacked the mother for being uncomfortable with this. Insane.

I didn't see it @AliceOlive , I'm not surprised really, I've been told I'm overthinking or overprotective in the past! 🤷‍♀️

I don’t think there is such a thing.

She was pretty flawless and it's hard to find fault with how she reigned. However, I always felt we never knew her as a person - that she was so incredibly formal that she lacked warmth. It would have been nice to have seen the human side of her more often. I know this is entirely to do with her generation. She was brought up to be dignified and professional at all times. The modern royals seems a little more human.
I think what I really dislike is hearing how her own children and grandchildren would have to curtsey and bow to her. To me that is just ridiculous! OK, I can kind of accept the formality she's given as head of state by other people but to expect that treatment from your own family is taking it too far. She clearly saw herself as Queen, first and foremost, and mother/grandmother second. Charles has complained about her emotional coldness as a mother and it doesn't surprise me at all.

It looks a bit odd but they are paying homage to the office, not the person. A bit like a salute, it’s the rank, not the individual being saluted.

@Ohpleeeease

Nonsense .

married ins are not curtsied to when the so called ‘royal’ is not there .
This, and the rest of the protocol claptrap is designed to fool the easily influenced ( putting it politely ) and create a false impression that the Windsors are worthy of respect .

As we have seen from Andrew, Mountbatten, Charles and god knows what else is being kept from the public currently , they are corrupt, immoral and do as they please .

I hope one of the things to go when the monarchy modernises properly is all this curtseying nonsense. A nod of the head is sufficient in formal situations where a handshake isn't appropriate.

If you mean from members of the public@polkadotdalmation I’m with you. Tbh I don’t think it’s expected, some people do it and some don’t.

I think if you’re in the ranks, so to speak, that’s different. It’s important to the family members themselves to acknowledge the hierarchy. What fascinates me is how they fit it in with the informal family kissing. Kate kisses then curtsies I think, others do it the other way round. Even when they’re greeting each other affectionately they get the curtesy in. Zara in particular has it off to a fine art.

"married ins are not curtsied to when the so called ‘royal’ is not there .
This, and the rest of the protocol claptrap is designed to fool the easily influenced ( putting it politely ) and create a false impression that the Windsors are worthy of respect*

Yes @Novella4
I read a couple of times in different publications (so, no idea if true) that Andrew would always enter a room where his mother was, walk over to her, bow, take her hand, kiss it and say "Good Morning Your Majesty, Mama"

FFS get a life! I wonder if that's why he was his favourite. She liked it. He was a brown noser
Win win for both

How can they EVER get in the real world and modernise if this is that it was, and is, like??

Roussette · Yesterday 22:05
Andrew would always enter a room where his mother was, walk over to her, bow, take her hand, kiss it and say "Good Morning Your Majesty, Mama"

I've read this too. And I agree that Andrew knew what he was doing and why - "keep Mama happy and I can do what I like. no one can touch me".

So pleased it failed him at last. He was always due for trouble when Charles (who disliked him) inherited, but it came in the Queen's lifetime.

Hmm my Cypriot cousin is married to a Greek Orthodox priest.

When we see him for the first time, on holiday, we always kiss his hand, before his cheeks. It’s a sign of respect for his position not for him personally. My grandparents did also even though they were decades older than him.

So I can sort of understand the curtsy/bowing of heads malarkey.

All of the family members would have greeted her that way, not just Andrew. They probably greet Charles in the same way now. Who cares, we don’t have to.

No, it was peculiar to Andrew. All other members of the RF didn't bow and kiss her hand every time they entered a room the Queen was in.
That's what was said anyway