H&M vs Backgrid

[PicturesOfDogs]

H&M have apparently ’demanded’ pap footage from Backgrid, according to TMZ.

Their lawyer has replied with the following:

In America, as I'm sure you know, property belongs to the owner of it: Third parties cannot just demand it be given to them, as perhaps Kings can do. Perhaps you should sit down with your client and advise them that his English rules of royal prerogative to demand that the citizenry hand over their property to the Crown were rejected by this country long ago. We stand by our founding fathers

Court case #6 incoming?

https://amp.tmz.com/2023/05/18/prince-harry-meghan-markle-demand-photo-agency-give-them-footage-of-chase/

It's a shame the way this has played out because had it not been an exsggerated drama they would have a point...the paps are intrusive and unpleasant (i saw a video of an actress - who doesnt court the paps getting out of a car at an award ceremony. She said hello to some paps but the one she didnt wave to shouted "i hope you fall over" this lady is nearly 70 and it shocked me how vicious they wete towards a quieg, older lady). We could have had sympathy for them being bothered and harrassed without the exagggeration

@AliceOlive Yes Netflix made a big thing of putting on the show Buckingham palace were asked to comment. Didn't say they didn't show them what they were meant to comment on.

Can see this incident on the next Netflix installation now. Major car chase as in grande theft auto. 😂😂😂

As a species we have fucked up. We need to stop elevating these rich, privileged twats to newsworthyness. Who cares about seeing photos of them with their kids. I just don't get it. The planet is dying, people are struggling to survive and yet the headlines are dominated by a pair of talentless, self absorbed celebs.

Fucking madness.

Major car chase as in grande theft auto

Well, their own version of GTA could be a profitable spin-off for H&M!

The whole thing is just stupid, though. H&M made clear it was a two hour thing from start to finish (so the two hours included the time they were inside the police station, after their police escort realised they couldn't safely avoid the paps who were running red lights and endangering pedestrians by driving over pavements and took them to the police station), and not two hours of continuous car chasing. They also never claimed it was a "high speed" chase.

The whole thing feels so manipulative and gaslighty from the media, and it's distasteful how much glee people are taking from watching someone who's clearly extremely traumatised be put into what's evidently a very traumatising situation.

Someone with PTSD whose mum was brutally killed by being chased by paps is for sure going to have a massive trauma response to being chased by paps themselves, and no one is denying (and both police and the NY mayor's office have confirmed) that some unmarked cars with covered up licence plates did chase them, did drive dangerously, and spent two hours pursuing them, and that their police escort considered the situation so dangerous they had to be escorted inside a police station and wait for some time inside a police station, then get a second form of transport.

The decision to move Harry and Meghan from their SUV into a yellow taxi then have the police escort go in a different direction from the taxi in order to fool the paps also seems to have confused people, due to the taxi driver selling his story to so many media outlets. But H&M were only in the taxi for ten minutes, because that was after they'd changed cars and ditched the car that was being chased. It was the SUV that was being chased, not the taxi.

The video also shows people surrounding their car screaming at them (who is the man with the British accent??) so it's not like nothing happened. Clearly something very upsetting happened. The police don't decide to escort and shelter two people in a police station for no reason.

It's just so shady how the media have created this whole thing where basically:
Harry and Meghan: We were chased, had to wait in a police station, and the whole thing took two hours.
Media: Harry and Meghan claim TWO HOUR HIGH SPEED CAR CHASE.
Witnesses: Um there was no HIGH SPEED chase.
Public: LOL busted for lying hahahaha!

Like... it's not Harry and Meghan who claimed it was a two-hour high speed chase, the media just made that up. Apparently only the small part that took place on FDR Drive (which is a highway) was 'high speed.' So there was a small part that was high speed but the two hours covers the whole thing, including the time spent inside the police station, and being pursued at lower speed. In a busy area like NY, being pursued even at low speeds is dangerous and scary. The pursuing cars were objectively driving over pavements and driving the wrong way down one-way streets which is clearly unsafe.

The whole thing happened between 10pm and midnight so it's not surprising that few passersby had footage. Think about it logically, if you're driving down a highway, how often do you have your phone open and in your hand, with camera app open and switched to video mode? And how fast would you react to other cars going by?

Yeah people saying "why didn't they call the police" are clearly misinformed. They had a police escort with them the entire time, and it was their police escort who made the decision to shelter them at the 19th Precinct police station because the police escort believed them to be in danger.

People saying it was a stunt or didn't happen - how do you explain the fact their own NYPD escort made the decision that they needed to be sheltered in a police station?

I just watched the video from that one young woman who witnessed it, and in the video she said she was upset and triggered just from witnessing the chase and how aggressive the paps were being. So it's not like there aren't witnesses.

@CosmosQueen
They had 4 SUVs with security guards and a NYPD car. So why call the NYPD if they already had one accompanying them?

That's a very good point. Surely the officer in the police car would have done something about these paps so unable to drive straight down a road that they were smashing into cars. Certainly I'd think that would be included in the police report. But maybe the police deliberately didn't mention it as they were just trying to make it all go away. (I'm beginning to have sympathy! Lol)

If the police were with them the whole time, why haven’t they arrested anyone? If it were genuinely that hazardous, surely the police escort would have called for back up.

The police said it was ‘a bit chaotic’ which sounds more like a situation which requires no arrests. Near catastrophic and chaotic are not the same.

So if they had a police escort the entire time, and the police said there were no collisions or injuries so they should know because they would have seen everything that happened. So I guess we have to dismiss the allegations that the paps were driving into cars parked outside the ballroom as the security claimed. That's helpful. Thanks for clearing that up. Notanotheroneagain will be pleased to hear that because she and I were concerned over how dangerous that could have been.

I've seen the video of the lady but she didn't see the chase. She was at the ballroom as they left. I think she's on one video shouting, I love you Meghan. 😃 Quite sweet. Anyway she saw the paps going after them but not any chase. And she seemed like a nice young woman but when she said it triggered her over Diana's death...hmm. She wasn't even born when Diana died so, sorry, I think thats just rhetoric or oversentimental nonsense.

I don't think it's a stunt. The paps definitely followed them and made a nuisance of themselves. They really are atrocious and I have huge sympathy for H&M and, indeed, with all celebs who go through this. With that's come out so far, nd what you've clarified, I think that Harry and Meghan were affected by it all but I think new yorkers think it's much less of a deal because they're more in the real world and living this day on day.

excess of snark - good way of putting it.

It does comes across as bad blood there - but I suppose it could be agency playing up to US public to avoid any potentially bad PR from incident.

I don't think it's a stunt. The paps definitely followed them and made a nuisance of themselves. They really are atrocious and I have huge sympathy for H&M and, indeed, with all celebs who go through this.

^This.

LOL, that's not reality. Do you know how many thousands of incidents of dangerous driving happen every day in NYC? They don't arrest people for that or else they'd never get anything else done.

I got physically hit and knocked to the ground by a driver running a red light at speed, police didn't even investigate.

Besides how, in practical terms, do you arrest a large number of people in unmarked cars with the licence plates covered up? They can't exactly physically ram the cars off the road to force them to stop and bodily drag the drivers out of the car, that would risk causing a major incident and is a huge overreaction for a traffic violation.

The normal way the police handle these kinds of driving offences is via tracking down licence plate info later on, but the licence plates were covered up.

NYPD priority in that situation was to deescalate the situation to prevent harm, which they did by removing Harry and Meghan to shelter in a police station, and then using evasive manoeuvres to sneak Harry and Meghan away from the police station by putting them into a second car.

If I called my partner and told him a bloke was following me, I doubt the first thing he’d think was that I asked him to. Come on now, be serious.

It’s the imagery it provokes though.

’Near catastrophic car chase’ gives off different imagery to ‘a bit of chaotic pursuit in slow moving traffic’.

When people first read the reports they assumed there was some sort of accident.

They chose their words very carefully, for maximum impact.

Some people, like me, see it as manipulative.
Just like the RF ‘racism’, where they didn’t actually say racist. Yet that was the implication that everyone got.

Others, like you, don’t.
Maybe you’re more ‘logical’ and when you first heard ‘near catastrophic car chase’ this is exactly what you imagined.

The paps definitely followed them and made a nuisance of themselves. They really are atrocious and I have huge sympathy for H&M and, indeed, with all celebs who go through this.

Sadly I do think this is very true - the intrusion looks bloody awful for many celebs but the whole situation here seems very badly managed and looks like it could have been better prepared for and manged from the outset.

If a bunch of unmarked cars with covered up licence plates had pursued Princess Kate and her nearly 70yr old mother for two hours, including chasing them at 80mph down a stretch of highway, screamed abusive comments at Kate to force her to react, driven the wrong way down one-way streets and driven over pavements to get at her, created a situation so serious that police made Kate and her mother shelter in a police station for their own protection late at night, made them abandon their own car and get a public taxi (whose driver later sold them out by selling the story to every media outlet who would listen), people would be baying for the drivers' blood.

It's only because it's Meghan that people are twisting an obviously traumatic and abusive event into being their fault, a PR stunt, not that serious.

It's sickening. And really even if you hate Harry, you can't have an ounce of empathy that someone who's mother was brutally and violently killed at a young age by being chased by paps might have a trauma response to being chased by paps himself?

It's just so shady how the media have created this whole thing where basically:
Harry and Meghan: We were chased, had to wait in a police station, and the whole thing took two hours.
Media: Harry and Meghan claim TWO HOUR HIGH SPEED CAR CHASE.
Witnesses: Um there was no HIGH SPEED chase.
Public: LOL busted for lying hahahaha!

Yes, the media have twisted things but to be fair Harry's team really started that. When you put out a statement of them being in a near catastrophic car chase in a relentless pursuit lasting over two hours, resulting in multiple near collisions involving other drivers on the road, pedestrians and two NYPD officers, then people are instinctively going to think of a pursuit like in a movie. I'd even guess that was the intention of the press office to make it sound as serious as possible. Because saying they took an hour to get 2km just doesn't have the same impact as a relentless pursuit with near catastrophic results.

Unfortunately, they amped it up so big, that the truth was always going to seem a bit of an anti-climax, which leaves them open to a bit of ribbing. However, I think Harry has got his point across and, you never know, this might start a change in NY law over pap behaviour which we'd all thank Harry for.

And it's awfully coincidental that someone was arrested and charged with stalking after breaking into Harry and Meghan's property just a few hours before the NY pursuit.

The police were with them the whole time, and ‘de escalated’ it by putting them in a cab?

That doesn’t make sense. At all.

You’re right, it doesn’t make sense for a traffic violation to call back up.
But they were apparently mounting kerbs and having near misses with pedestrians, which takes it out of the realm of mere ‘traffic violation’ into public endangerment.

Did you have a police escort with you when your were run down?
If not, not comparable. (Although horrific, and disgraceful not investigated!)

They could have avoided a lot of bother if they used language like "harassed by aggressive paparazzi " or said that the paparazzi could have endangered a member of the public rather than use language that conjures up an image of them being in a Diana style situation.

It will be interesting to see what the police says when they look at all video evidence including any dash cam footage from other motorists, Harry's footage and traffic cameras. Nobody doubts that they were followed but the paparazzi and Sussex security have opposite recollections of who was driving dangerously and it easily could be both parties.

Interestingly I think that any relationship between the Sussexes and Backgrid is now over. If they wish to set up a situation in future, another agency will get the business.

As it was a NY firm, you'd think they'd have all sorts of local knowledge of what to do and where to go to avoid this. There's even a story of the police escort hiding in someone's driveway. I mean WTF!!
If I were the police I'd be saying next time you come to NY, make sure you stay in a hotel or you're on your own. 😆 It's ridiculous.

This happened to Kate for years tbf, and no-one gave a shit.

Im pretty sure she was up skirted getting out a car at some point too.

They could have avoided a lot of bother if they used language like "harassed by aggressive paparazzi " or said that the paparazzi could have endangered a member of the public rather than use language that conjures up an image of them being in a Diana style situation.

Exactly this.

Prowling. But I get your point. A lot of people have remarked on certain coincidences, to be fair.

"The police were with them the whole time, and ‘de escalated’ it by putting them in a cab? That doesn’t make sense. At all."

Yes, NYPD confirmed that an NYPD escort was with them the entire time.

The NYPD escort tried to shake off the 12 cars that were originally pursuing them, but after witnessing the cars driving through red lights, driving the wrong way down one-way roads, and driving on pavements, the NYPD decided the safest course of action was to deescalate the situation by removing Harry and Meghan (and Doria, everyone forgets her mum was with them) to the safe shelter of the nearest police station, which was the 19th Precinct station.

While inside the police station, they came up with a plan to get Harry, Meghan and Meghan's mother from the police station to their home safely. That plan involved using a second car as a decoy. The NYPD escort left with Harry and Meghan's SUV (the SUV that the cars had been pursuing), so that the pursuing cars would assume that Harry and Meghan were still in the SUV, while Harry, Meghan and Doria slipped out the back in a yellow taxi, which they were only in for 10 minutes.

Why do you feel it doesn't make sense? Using a taxi as a decoy and trying to trick the pursuers into thinking H&M were still in the SUV is a great plan.

Well, we must agree to disagree.

Taking them away from their security and putting them in with a random member of the public in a potentially dangerous situation doesn’t sound like a great plan to me

Their security was with them in the taxi, and they were only in the taxi for 10 minutes. They were briefly separate from their police escort but their own security was with them the whole time.

People make dumb decisions in the heat of the moment, and trauma/PTSD no doubt played a role in that. Everyone is choosing to ignore how massively traumatic being chased by paps must have been for Harry given how much his mother's killing affected him. He clearly had a trauma response, and no doubt that influenced his decisions.

Obviously the NPYD don't answer to Harry, but his own security do. If Harry says "I'm leaving and getting a taxi" then they can't stop him, they can advise against it, but he's their boss and they have to follow his orders. NYPD can't order Harry to remain in the police station against his will.

Your argument seems to be "this can't possibly be true as it would require a deeply traumatised person in the middle of a traumatic decision to make a dumb decision, and obviously people never make dumb decisions ever."