Strangest bits in Spare…

[Motorcycleemptyness]

i haven’t quite finished it yet but I wanted to read a thread about some of the weirder bits of Spare, and I haven’t seen a thread where people were discussing those without the ‘H&M’ vs the rest of the RF debate. There are definitely some parts which have made me really question why they were included, and I was wondering if anyone else had any similar thoughts.

The inclusion of the imagery of the poppy fields, and how heroin funds the Taliban. Fair enough. We all know that. The rest of the book is one long ode to posh people taking drugs. Does Prince Harry think the cocaine he takes is gently knitted by fairies and delivered to him by unicorns? Do the drugs he takes not contribute to war and terrorism and misery across the rest of the world (and indeed misery and crime in the UK, where he is 5th in line to be monarch!) I found this quite a strange passage and I was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts, or am I just over thinking it?

Elizabeth Arden cream. ‘Mummy’s lips’. ‘Todger’. Why? But really, why? Why was this included? Why did anyone think it or commit it to paper, and then publish it? Why did I read it? Why am I typing it here? ARGH.

What he actually thinks the relationship between the royal family and the press should actually be. Only reporting true things? Someone had a photo of him taking cocaine. Dressed as a nazi. Calling his colleague a ‘P*ki’. He wasn’t happy, but it was all true. Should journalists not be allowed to report true things? Or should they only be reporting things he wants them to report? Does Andrew get to choose that too? What about everyone else?

What the actual royal family should look like. This was mind bending. He seems to be perfectly happy with the idea of the monarchy, an institution which is predicated on the idea that they’re inherently superior to the rest of us, and that’s their birth right, but seems to massively struggle to apply that to himself and William. If a monarchy is the best system, why shouldn’t the heir be treated differently to the spare? (I don’t believe it is the best system and wish we could abolish them all but I don’t understand how one can believe one but not the other!).

Anyone else have any interesting thoughts?

@comrad I just managed to catch up on all the posts. A mega thread just makes sense in so far as there are no limitations on the number of posts and all discussions are in one place. I’m not at all offended. I’m not sure where you got that from. I was just thinking of a practical solution so that things don’t get repeated.

I’m not a royalist nor am I republican. I do think some working members of the royal family are doing great things and I feel as though the rest can live private lives until the current working royals retire.

The arm placement can easily be explained by the height differential. PW is 6 foot 3 inches and HMQ was 5 foot 3 inches. She was short and he tall. Her arms correspondingly shorter. She may also have had a loss of range of movement in her shoulders which would have made putting her arm higher impossible. She was well into her twilight years - a time when we are more physically vulnerable. She will have been hyper aware of the strength of her grandson and the possibility of accidentally toppling her. There was a need to maintain her balance. Placing her hand in this manner actually allowed her to maintain balance.

I adored my paternal grandparents but I never higged them. They generally showed affection by holding our hands hand or a kiss in the cheek. Partly generational (they were born at the end of WW1) and partly because they were elderly and frail, particularly my grandmother who was disabled with rhematoid arthritis.

Why is there some sort of bizarre imagined hierarchy around how people display their affection? I said in another thread that I hug but my ND son doesn’t.He doesn’t like kissing either. It does not mean that he is not affectionate in other ways, or that he doesn’t love us. Not everyone feels the need to show their love by flinging their arms around each other. Doesn’t mean they don’t have feelings fgs.

Honestly it’s madness to insist on the hug as the single signifier of affection that counts - and there are candid and posed pictures of Charles with his arm around Harry. Harry may not have felt loved enough but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t loved and shown that love. What he wants from his family - equal status with his brother, the return of his mother, total adoration of his wife, for example - is fundamentally impossible to demand or deliver. I’m glad he has Meghan if she fills that emotional need in him, but that doesn’t make it a reasonable or rational need.

Wise words, @Mingmoo
None of us are perfect parents.
I hope, down the line, that Archie and Lilibet don't publicly judge their parents as harshly.

Well put @Mingmoo

Exactly

Without wanting to get into conspiracy theories the birth stories both feel a bit unlikely in the way that lots of tv births are.

Completely agree, the expression of love is not always through the 'I love yous' or physically affection - it is shown through the small everyday acts of love - filling your fridge with food, coming to watch you at important events, paying for your car tax, buying in your favourite food when you come over, asking you to text when you get home, asking you to text when you finish your journey, checking the oil on your car, checking your tires, sending you a link to a newspaper article you may find interesting, asking if your cold is any better, offering to dog sit, driving you back to the station, picking you up after a sports match, watching the sports match. It is the small, caring, little and often unnoticed acts of kindness.

This is how my family operates. I can't remember anyone ever telling each other that they love each other. We have recently started putting 'xxx' on the end of WhatsApp messages though.

Harry may not have felt loved enough but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t loved and shown that love

That echoes something Anne said in an interview after Charles's ridiculous whining to Jonathan Dimbleby - it was a bit waspish but very much to the point

As others have said, Harry had better hope the DCs don't end up telling similar tales about him

@StartupRepair & the seemingly v long processing time for pregnancy tests. H fell asleep as took so long. Odd. Poss in shock in bathroom though. I’d have had to look first!

The Dimbleby interview is an interesting thing to consider in terms of Charles and his ability to forgive Harry. Having himself said stuff about his own upbringing that his parents will have found very hurtful he can’t really complain that Harry is now doing the same to him.

I remember a video, the the queens grandkids were running around and the queens hand was out and she would touch/ruffle their hair as they ran past.

My kids love to be hugged, the youngest is a big hugger and would happily bear hug anyone (which made him very popular with my in-laws as all their children are much older)

The middle boy is more cautious and has a smaller circle of people he would comfortably hug - but he will offer back rubs and biscuits.

My parents didn’t hug very often, it was a different time different society . They happily accept hugs but didn’t initiate them.

I don’t like hugging people outside family. For example I didn’t hug a staff member leaving an organisation I’m chairman of but other board members did

Having himself said stuff about his own upbringing that his parents will have found very hurtful (Charles) can’t really complain that Harry is now doing the same to him

Absolutely - but I'd be amazed if this stopped him complaining, or even if he had the insight to appreciate the connection

As I've said so often there's a cost to being constantly surrounded by people who'll rarely say anything but how wonderful you are, and we're seeing it spilling into view

I don't think Harry is doing the same as Charles. The interview was quite a while ago so maybe I've forgotten something but I don't remember him discussing:
Siblings' genitals
Siblings' partners
Money
His parents relationship
Nasty comments about disabled staff members
There is probably much more.

I think that Charles has realised that you can only do your best. I’m sure part of him regrets saying all that.

I’m also sure he did feel that way, and that he did have a cold upbringing. I know he had a terrible time at his school for example, however I’m sure as he got older he came to realise that people are not perfect, and that people are a product of their upbringing, and no matter how hard you try to break the cycle, sometimes it’s not enough, and you can only do what you can do. I’m sure Harry saying these things about him has made him see his own parents in a new light.

Hopefully Harry will also have this realisation once he grows up a bit, no one is perfect, and while his father may not have hugged him as often as he’s like, he showed his affection and love in other ways.

For most people becoming a parent yourself makes you feel more forgiving of your own parents because you realise that like you they were just flawed people doing their best without a clue. Neither Harry or Meghan seems to have come to this awareness.

I remember being very sad/angry with my parents (for entirely valid reasons, tbf) when my children were young. I couldn't understand how they could ever have let anything bad happen to me/make some of the poor decisions they made. I vowed I would never repeat their mistakes with my own children!! And as it happens, I didn't, because I worked very hard not to...but I did make my own mistakes. None of us are infallible and barring neglect/abuse and extreme dysfunctionality, most parents do the very best they can for their children with the resources available to them.

When my children got a little older and I'd gained a little wisdom, I was able to see that my parents, whilst they had certainly failed me in some aspects, didn't deserve for me to hold on to that anger forever.

@Ohgodthepain
My DM never hugged me, but I had a very close relationship with her.
Just not based on hugs.
What we saw at the Platinum Jubilee was P. Louis (youngest son of William and Kate), go and sit on Charles' lap. He would not have done that if the relationship was stiff and cold.

The problem is that they both desperately want to paint Meghan as being Diana The Second. Inevitably, this will involve fitting details of Diana's life to tie in with Meghan's and making dramatic claims about Meghan's experience to tie in with Diana's. The result is paranoia and desperation.
Diana was constantly chased because the press/public were fascinated and mesmerized by her and believed in her. Meghan has only courted attention because the press and public are repelled by her and how she has forged a way into the inner sanctum of a family/institution which she clearly dislikes.
They don't believe most of what she says (with good reason). They are chasing her away as opposed to chasing after her to get closer (as it was for Diana).

There was a lovely bit of film of Charles arriving home (somewhere) by helicopter, as he walked away from the helicopter William and Harry (as young lads) ran across the field jumped into his arms and hugged him and he hugged them, it was very affectionate. They were obviously delighted he was home and he was delighted to see them.

I'm about 80% of the way through. Easy enough to read, but I realised that I'm not really reading it as 'non-fiction piece. The language used makes it seem very flowery, and makes them all seem like characters, and not real people and real events (to me - this is a personal opinion, and how I am taking it). The first part of it even reminded me of a sort of modern take on 'Catcher in the Rye'.

Anyway, back to this thread - lots of laughable things, but one particular nugget that I read this morning made me chuckle (Harry had just told Willy and Kate that he had started dating Meghan):

I was baffled, until Willy and Kate explained that they were regular - nay, religious - viewers of Suits.
Great, I thought, laughing. I've been worrying about the wrong thing. All this time I thought Willy and Kate might not welcome Meg into the family, but now I had to worry about them hounding her for an autograph.

I know it could be argued this was meant to be very tongue in cheek, but the idea of the Cambridges (as they were at the time), who have spent a lot of time around numerous celebrities, and various Heads of State, etc., asking anyone for an autograph, let alone hounding them for one. 😂

I find it hard to believe that Kate and William were ‘religious watchers’ of suits. It wasn’t good enough really to make you ‘fanatical’
It’s USP that Mike had a photographic memory and Harvey was an amazing negotiator got sidelined by the relationship soap opera it turned into.

They were clearly just being polite, and Harry has added his own reality to it - making them super fans 🤣

Good points.

I do wonder what would happen if Harry stops idolising MM - its all so weird, and a bit disturbing (she's Diana reincarnated). If she 'fails' him, like his family did, maybe by putting her ambition first, he could decide she's the enemy now.

In terms of a second book, I don't know. There is a lot of derision out there after this one. And I think they've isolated themselves from the great and the good in the US as they've shared too much. How Harry is still the victim when he's admitted assaulting staff, been insulting about the physical appearance of staff, acknowledged staff crying, and shared the most intimate information about his brother and father baffles me.

I'm sure Charles wants Harry to shut up so as to not overshadow the Coronation but I don't see how that's going to work. There is nothing they can do to stop him, as I think he's in a spiral, and talking to him just gives him more info to share and feel aggrieved over. I feel for them, but I think grey rock until he stops is the only way.