So the Royal Family isn’t racist?

[Harrysfrostbittentodger]

That’s what I took from Harry’s recent interview. That they didn’t accuse the royal family of being racist in the Oprah interview?!

How are other people viewing this?

I think basically Harry is saying that he didn't call his family 'racist'. He is mindful of unconscious bias and explores that phenomenon but has never said his family are 'racist.' Racist is the word the papers used.

I think this is a really excellent, nuanced post.

Racism is such a complicated issue, just like other forms of discrimination - homophobia, sexism, ableism etc.

And just because one person finds something offensive or shocking, doesn't mean that it was intrinsically racist/sexist/homophobic etc. The comment may be tactless, insensitive or clumsily worded - but that doesn't mean it comes from a place of hatred and discrimination.

To make this personal to me, I'm autistic. I'm an intelligent, capable woman with a DP and DC, plus my own business. I have a lovely relationship with both my DP and DC. It's a house full of love. And yet, there's a long-running series of threads on the Relationships board here on MN about how utterly SHIT is is being in a relationship with an autistic person, full of quite unpleasant language about autistic people and how utterly awful we are.

I find that series of threads really bloody offensive because autistic people are spoken about as one homogenous group with a single personality, and just as really unpleasant people. I am free to take offence but that's my personal choice and my freedom. My offence and intense displeasure at the thread series still doesn't mean that it's discrimination. People are sharing their personal experiences, and pain.

We all hold unconscious bias created by a combination of personal experiences and social conditioning. All we can do is try our best to be aware of any bias, examine thoughts that we hold to see if they hold a basis in fact and try to be open if someone suggests that it might be the case. If you believe you are fundamentally an honest, good person who wants to fight prejudice - in this case racism - it can be difficult if someone points out a potential bias. It doesn't mean they're right, they may just be over-sensitive (as I am sometimes about autism) - but then again, they might have a point. It's always worth considering whether you are truly viewing things from all sides, or sticking to a familiar perspective because it feels comfortable.

I know that I'm unduly sensitive about certain subjects, and have a tendency to slap people down unfairly - the puzzle piece being one example. I feel so strongly about the subject and yet, if I remove my emotion I can see that it could be possible to genuinely hold another interpretation which hasn't developed from the offensive previous campaigns. And maybe that's where my personal bias holds me back as I find it hard to see that. And this can be widened to all of us, across every potential prejudice or unconscious bias.

Coming to the colour of the baby's skin - only those present will know the true intent of the conversation. With Harry being a red-head and Meghan being mixed race, that's two opposite ends of the spectrum - it could have been perfectly natural to wonder who the baby would resemble and whether it would be fair or more olive-skinned. Lots of PP have said that mixed race couples in their family have wondered the same, often with the black side of the family being vocal on the subject. It doesn't mean it's a racist conversation.

The problem is that it's a sensitive subject, especially for the Royal Family with the past that they have. So it's very easy to assume that it was a racist conversation. Given their background it was probably thoughtless, far more so than the same conversation in other families, and would have been better left unsaid. And maybe Meghan was wrestling with her new very public status as a biracial woman - she's previously been vocal about the fact she never felt like one before. So if she was feeling sensitive and vulnerable, maybe this information about the conversation - filtered through Harry's newfound professional victim mentality, felt intrusive and offensive.

And to be fair to the dickhead, perhaps likewise Harry, suddenly in a relationship with a biracial woman for the first time and wrestling with subjects he'd never seen up close before - perhaps he did what lots of people in the public have done, and that's assume any speculation about skin colour was racist. Because he wasn't sure any more what's OK to speculate about and it felt better not to be seen as racist, just in case it was....A bit of a leap, and an uninformed one, which coupled with sensitivities, led to the wild claims.

It's not a popular thing to say these days but the Queen and the seniors in the Royal Family were at the forefront of leading the charge against racism back in the day. They've always been very vocal about embracing everyone from all religions and races, and there's never been any sign that it's not genuine. There's still some historic clumsiness which perhaps has been very ill-advised, but I find it hard to believe that in general, they are a racist family with hate-filled views. I don't know about the wider family, but certainly the Queen and Charles have always been particularly against prejudice, possibly due to their strong faith which teaches kindness, acceptance and love. But that narrative about the Royal Family being anti-racism is extremely unpopular right now, with lots of certain eminent professors keen to paint them as an awful, colonial family with blood on their hands and hate in their heart. And that has been encouraged enormously by Harry and Meghan's unproven claims of racism - which have now been rescinded.

What a huge bloody mess. And what a shame.

I'm trying to be kind here and assume that no one side is shit-stirring just to cause trouble. Just trying to imagine how a genuine misunderstanding could have occurred. Of course it doesn't explain why Harry and Meghan stayed silent since Oprah, but Harry is now claiming it's not racism. Interesting to see what Meghan has to say about this - they've always presented a completely united front, so this leaves her in a very difficult situation if she disagrees, and wasn't aware of what Harry was going to say....

The questions were pre approved, and Harry seemed to be displeased when there was some sort of deviation or additional question.

Yeah they must have a lot more dirt on him - turn around and deflect - "unconscious bias"

If Lady Hussey isn't racist - and that's definitely true because Harry says so - will she get her job back?
Hmmm. Didn't think so. And if you're reading this Lady H, rest assured that you're best off out of it. After all, Harry might change his mind tomorrow.....

And yet Tom Bradby made no reference to this during his interview with Harry, when surprised by Harry’s denial that neither he nor Meghan had suggested the RF was racist for an unnamed individual raised “concern” that a future child might have dark skin during their earlier OW interview.

A missed opportunity to clarify why the couple had accepted an award for tackling something they now say isn’t the case. So many varying recollections….

The Oprah interview racism accusation wasn't just that someone yet to be named speculated about the colour of skin of a future baby. It was clearly intimated that his skin colour is the reason Archie was being refused the title of prince.

This !

Also, I read speculation that the reason he brought up Lady Susan Hussey, and saying she was not a racist was to undermine William, who had immediately released a statement, '"Obviously, I wasn't there, but racism has no place in our society. The comments were unacceptable, and it is right that the individual has stepped aside with immediate effect,"

Exactly that, @MoirasSaggyBundles .
Skin colour and status and level of protection. It was quite explicit.

Well Oprah thought he meant they were racist - look at her reaction.

Didn't H himself say that there was a 'race element' to how the RF treated M?

Indeed the overblown horror and Meghan’s knowing, faux sad nod in reply spokw volumes.

I’d seriously question whether Harold has any understanding of the issue given his refusal to acknowledge his own blatant past racism.

It was always obvious that H and M still want to be part of that 'racist' firm (Why else would she marry into it if not that it's easy to overlook terrible things if it gives you what you want?)

Their accusations of racism (though I believe the RF is racist but not because they said so) remind me of people who happily partake when the going is good but once aggrieved, use the lowest hanging fruit to score points.

On a slightly different note, I can't help but find it ironic and amusing that some people were on their side and also used the charity owner, Ngozi's racism experience to validate Meghan's stories of racism, yet H and M couldn't help but defend Susan Hussey. Some people only throw up "racism" when it suits them to whip up pity and supporters. Black people, when will you learn?🤣

Nope, this rehashing of Harry’s comment last night doesn’t wash.

You don’t get to backtrack on what was said in the OW interview, what everyone saw/heard, what was/has been discussed ever since, all the posts on here stating how racist the family are.

They let that speculation continue for almost two years. They have, subtly (or not) based their whole platform around that subject. And then just casually drop in “oh no, never said that”. If Tom Bradby hadn’t brought up the subject, nothing would have been said and the argument/accusation would still be there today.

Seriously, please try better with regards to undoing 2 years of THE biggest narrative surrounding the couple and the RF.

I am really cross about this. It undermines so much with regards to racism. I can’t get the thoughts clear enough in my head to explain why right now. But this backtracking is a bloody insult on so many different levels.

I do agree with others who have said that Meghan’s verdict matters more regarding this. However, they also have put out there so many times how they operate as “one”.

Right now, my only conclusion can be that I can no longer invest in trying to understand their POV on anything. Because it’s likely to change at some point - and their original “POV” will always be the fault of someone else.

Yes, happy top throw Ngozi Fulani under the bus and have a whine about why Lady Hussey got an apology. Not a celebration that the RF were learning from past mistakes, a whine about, once again, what H&M aren't being given.

Quite - it’s brought back round to them yet again. It is so ridiculously offensive.

BTW, love your username. Can you imagine if H&M ever had to produce a bundle, I’d definitely log in to watch that play out 🤣

I am really cross about this. It undermines so much with regards to racism. I can’t get the thoughts clear enough in my head to explain why right now. But this backtracking is a bloody insult on so many different levels.

It's because they cried wolf and were believed and reaped the benefit of it. And now, when it suits their agenda, they walk it back and still seek to claim the higher ground by blaming the press over-egged it. Every single person of colour who came out and said, "H&M's experience chimes with my own, this is racism writ large," now looks a fool. Every single POC who has a legitimate complaint about racism will have a harder time being believed. Every blatant racist can minimise their behaviour as unconscious bias, as Harry is now doing.

The RF is not the only target here. The UK has been cast by US commentators as some backwards, racist cesspit. H&M's "plight" has been held up as proof by every race baiting inadequate casting about to justify their grievances. In conjunction with unsubstantiated critical race theories creeping into training and education, and the ridiculous extrapolation and application to this country of US's poor race relations record, H&M have helped to set race relations in the UK back several decades.

That should be Ngozi getting an apology, not Lady Hussey.

@MeghanAndTheSeals thank you, I'll be there with popcorn if any of their court cases become accessible! Your name, however, is making me think of a really cool, 80s all female rock band!

H&M have helped to set race relations in the UK back several decades.

So very true.

H&M have helped to set race relations in the UK back several decades.

In some ways, yes. But in others, no. Don't confuse social media stramashes with the thoughts and feelings of the UK.
Sure, some US posters whose knowledge of the UK is limited to following certain tweets might feel destabilised but most people in RL in the UK didn't have their experience or understanding of racism changed by H&M. Because most people in the UK who care about prejudice and discrimination, who have campaigned on racism, didn't view H&M as either representative or as knowledgeable spokespeople on the issues. H&M always speak from a position of immense wealth and privilege and from a lack of understanding of life for the majority of people in the UK and ignorance about the UK's history. There are issues of institutional racism H&M could have challenged instead they complained about diamonds and hereditary titles.

Total bollocks.

So you just randomly have a feeling in your bones that the whole RF is racist, such that you need to publicly declare it.

You do realise that the RF is made up of lots of separate individuals don’t you. So possibly there may be members of the older generation who hold unacceptable views, but what’s your evidence (for example) that Prince William or Zara Phillips or Princess Beatrice is a racist?

It’s like me labelling you and your whole extended family racist because you happen to have a great aunt who is.

So you just randomly have a feeling in your bones that the whole RF is racist, such that you need to publicly declare it.

You do realise that the RF is made up of lots of separate individuals don’t you. So possibly there may be members of the older generation who hold unacceptable views, but what’s your evidence (for example) that Prince William or Zara Phillips or Princess Beatrice is a racist?

It’s like me labelling you and your whole extended family racist because you happen to have a great aunt who is. Incredibly lazy and hurtful.

Difficult as in a bullying control freak with an over inflated ego.

It does, and if the concern was how to protect the child against racism then it's a valid highly aware aware concern. You can't have it both ways here.

Harry said it wasn't racism, so why are you disagreeing with him?