Bookclub for Spare

[BornBlonde]

I know there are loads of threads, but thought it may be useful to set up a bookclub thread ahead of the release date fir those interested. I've ordered the audiobook as struggling to find time to read at the moment but love I can listen to an Audiobook while cooking etc

It's a pity Meghan hadn't watched Four Weddings and a Funeral before her wedding. It might have have given her some insight.

How do you know all these things Meghan thought?

I don't - that's why I said "I think she thought..." instead of "I know she thought..."

We do know or can surmise some of these things by what has been said.

Loads of money. I don't know but I think we can all agree that just about everyone wiukd think children of a future king would be financially flush or would be well taken care of.

Loads of freebies. Well she kept freebies without questioning, so, yes, she clearly expected freebies.

Living in luxury - she dud deride the cottage and did say it wasn't like living in a,palace. And that people would be shocked by how they were living.

Besties with Kate - she gave the impression that she expected a close relationship, if not besties. That might be through Harry's expectation that they would be all very close, though. Maybe he lulled her into a false sense that Kate wanted to be besties.

Darling of the press - to be fair, it did start out that way so it would be reasonable to expect that to continue. She should have listened to her English friends - they warned her.

Star of the show. This I struggle with. It depends. Did she see herself, as Harry did, as a new Diana? Did she seriously see herself unending traditions, hundreds of years in the making? And wouldn't Harry have been cautious,about this? Diana got caught in the trap of overshadowing Charles' work and it didn't end well. However, she was an actress and clearly liked the limelight, so...maybe.

@Aspiringmatriarch @MarshaMelrose She IS a planner in some respects though. She's not the sort to have a half eaten digestive in her handbag :).

And the men in her life, some planning and calculation for sure.

Her outfits and jewellery, this isn't a woman with laddered tights and shoes that need reheeling. The outfits, the jewellery, she's incredibly put together. Even her jewellery is symbolic.

People DO forget just how on it you have to be to work on a show like SUITS. Not only to get the part but to learn your script and be on the ball. She just can't be that disorganised.

I can't see her jet lagged father being shipped in the day before to be fitted in a suit and then expected got walk past the Queen. It may well need tweaking, that would give me nightmares, the uncertainty. Anyone would have a bit of a panic.

On the Tig she can big up all the good things, the image, the famous and award winning lighting director on well known USA shows. In the flesh she might be more reticent about him.

I thought that about the dresses, but again I can't imagine if you've got Givenchy on your big day you'd be kind of nonchalant about it all, surely a bigger cock up here?

If her father WAS going to be there then why didn't Harry fly to LA to see him before. They actively avoided doing so. Something was up in my opinion. The whole thing that his phone fell into the wrong hands etc? Was this an excuse?

Any normal bride in the pub back room would have a spreadsheet on the go and not have Dad trying the suit the day before, it would be all picked up from Moss Bros and he'd be being carefully briefed! :) Something is off key.

Her father and mother literally had the eyes of the world on them. Doria had her outfit all planned out. Don't Americans have rehearsal dinners etc?

I am not suggesting she IS a narcissist but IF she were, could that mean that type would drop the ball on anything that wasn't about them? Trying to make sense of what seems like a disorganised muddle for a wedding.

Who was her Matron of Honour, wasn't Jessica M the stylist? Usually that job would entail a trip to see Thomas to curate his outfit!

Lol @MarshaMelrose indeed on the Queen. Shame Princess Margaret wouldn't have been around. Comedy Gold if all turned up who might have done...

I think she thought the dull old Windsors would be blown away by her , genuinely. I think she imagined that the British public would think her the new Queen of Hearts pretty much instantaneously too.

@dexra re: Four Weddings, indeed!

well, I think you have decided a bunch of stuff MM allegedly thinks based on your dislike of her.

this thread was supposed to be a book club for Spare, but it’s descended into another MM bashing, rather than focussing on the book. CBA. Bye.

I don't think I've been unfair or nasty. Im certainly not intending to bash her. Who wouldn't have expectations marrying the grandson of the Queen of the United Kingdom and son of the future King of the United Kingdom?
Personally, I'd think I'd never have money worries, I'd be housed somewhere very nice, have lovely clothes, lots of staff, wonderful holidays and first class travel. And I'd hope I'd have great relationships with all my in-laws. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect any of that. And I do think she expected similar.

How it works out in practice, I don't know.

She's not the sort to have a half eaten digestive in her handbag :)

Or a marmalade sandwich? :)

What turned things as I see it was his eagerness to talk to her self-declared enemies. I suspect that if he had been talking to American media only, or anyone but Piers Morgan and Dan Wootton, things might have been salvaged, but giving ammunition to Piers and Dan would have been too much for H and M.

How would TM know who he should or shouldn't be speaking to? He wouldn't be au fait with the British media. He seems to have been living a fairly retired life, not even moving in US showbiz or society circles.

This is at least partly on Harry, I think. TM should have been regularly briefed, told to refer requests for interviews and photoshoots to KP (some excuse about co-ordinating press coverage, rather than 'we don't trust you'), given the number of someone at KP he could call if he needed help or advice.

But yes, I think the Queen would have taken it all in her stride. I'm sure she dealt with worse during Commonwealth Heads of Government meetings and state visits.

Star of the show.

They did say they were single handedly modernising the monarchy. And Harry reckons his family were mean to her because she was so naturally brilliant at it all.

Being ignorant or not doing any research isn't a get out of jail free card. He spoke to those people who attacked his daughter on tv on a daily basis. She's far more reason to avoid contact than most.

@SheilaFentiman please don't go. As far as these threads go, this is actually quite balanced. We live in hope.

@MrsMaxDeWinter Very poignant clip. My heard goes out to him, 'I am only a footnote in history' 'I wanted to walk my daughter down the aisle'. 'I wanted that moment'...He and Doria had raised an exceptional woman after all.

Piers suggests that it might have been prudent to come x two weeks before, as we've said and Thomas replies 'these guys were busy' which could mean that they weren't forthcoming but it's all a bit vague.

I know it's post heart attack here but he does seem vulnerable and unwell. It was SUCH a big day for ALL of them. The fittest, youngest, most socially confident father would struggle being thrust into a regal and celebrity limelight the night before. Anyone would understand that.

Bowers expands Meghan called to say Thomas's planned 'short speech' was 'not possible'. 'That hurt' Thomas admitted. 'It was the worst blow' 'He was a proud man and wanted acknowledgement, even admiration as the father of this remarkable young woman'. [I had expected that I am a bit surprised he thought she'd sanction it given he knows her well and the circumstances].

Bowers goes on 'On 11th May, Thomas also texted Meghan: 'I know your hard work to make me look good. Thank you. I am getting excited. It's all close now. I can't wait to walk you down the aisle' [My gut tells me that was as ultimately unlikely as the delivering the father of the bride speech, unfortunately].

'Contrary to Meghan's later claim, he did not personally refuse to get into a waiting car to drive to the airport, nor had he 'turned away' a security guard sent by the British Embassy'. It seems transport to the airport came too late if it came at all and anyway by then he was across the border en route to hospital.

Meghan seemingly DID want him to come, or so she said, but it all sounds very confused, with Thomas being hard to pin down, Harry texting 'if you had listened to me none of this would have happened'. Which caused Thomas to lose his temper: 'maybe it would be better for you guys if I was dead'. Meghan is upset and Harry can't bear her to be in any kind of distress, says Bowers. Meghan apparently doesn't believe her father is really in hospital. [As Meghan knows Thomas well, having a major role and being well meaning but having a tendency to fly off handle etc, makes him unsuitable practically although her heart might want him]?

Meanwhile Doria is all booked into Cliveden and arrives at LHR. Bowers again 'Few could understand why she had not arrived accompanied by a friend. Everyone assumed it was her own choice rather than Meghan's'.

Doria seems to counsel Meghan against Thomas so I do wonder if there was something afoot here and that's relevant.

What's interesting about Meghan is that apparently she doesn't mind about 'arousing anyone's displeasure' if true, I'd say that's rare and in its way a kind of superpower. Could it be said of Harry too, I wonder? It would certainly make you pretty formidable.

There might also be some light shed here on bridesmaids dress-gate. Jessica M and Meghan both said 'no' to tights and Kate wanted to follow Royal protocol on this and have Charlotte in tights. Meghan, says Bowers, wasn't interested in 'Royal Tradition'. (Her day her way? Fair enough or not fair enough)? Jessica was there as an advisor. Melissa Toubati, Meghan's assistant and Givenchy dress fitter, Claire Waight-Keller 'witnessed Meghan emphatically reject Kate's observation' that Charlotte's hem was too short. 'Compromise was not a trait Meghan embraced'. Kate burst into tears, says Bowers. Then she gave flowers to Meghan later on to try to make peace but also told her not to be rude to her staff. Then I think, daggers were drawn.

It sounds like Meghan didn't want to adhere to protocol and wanted things to be more free and easy? Kate was more conservative and by the book.

Why is all so organised re: Doria (?) and left so unclear and unplanned with Thomas. It seems very odd to me.

@kirinm you may be right but he doesn't seem the malicious type, he doesn't really seem to have much concept of who people are in her world and what on earth is going on. The time differences don't help either him or Meghan. Much would have been sorted with early and regular face-to-face meetings, have him to stay in Oxfordshire or in Frogmore, etc.

@hoooops it seems, even though it wasn't her 'big day', Kate was very uncomfortable with Jessica and Meghan going against protocol and not doing that to be awkward I felt either. Did it matter to the Queen etc? Would she notice and be upset if the bridesmaids weren't wearing tights, for example. My Granny wouldn't notice! Was there some waspish courtier checking up to see protocol was followed at all times?

I bet any money the Queen would notice. So would every female member of the royal party.

I think ultimately it would have been difficult with Thomas Markle whatever they'd done. I don't think he's a horrible person but hard to pin down or take on face value. I do believe Meghan wanted him there, perhaps he should have come over sooner but my guess is he didn't want to.

He was probably bricking it and although he hoped to walk Meghan down the aisle ultimately the whole thing was completely overwhelming, he sent mixed signals and didn't communicate well (because how would you say to your daughter you didn't think you could handle coming to her wedding?) and the rest is history. From what we know on record, Meghan was caring towards him and willing to overlook the staged paparazzi shots but he then went incommunicado. Someone living his lifestyle isn't necessarily going to be easy to coordinate with, whether it was meeting Harry or anything else. He didn't like to travel and I imagine just wasn't cooperative. That's my take on it anyway. Even delivering him an invitation would have been more of a logistical challenge than for Doria.

@Zosime exactly. Thomas seems vulnerable and out of his depth. I don't think he knows what's going on, which is why he needed to be ensconced in Cliveden or similar weeks before and as you say, briefed. He doesn't understand and his actions don't feel malicious. He co-operates re: press and then doesn't come clean, as she should have done with Harry. He doesn't want to get into trouble and was trying to rehabilitate what he was told was a dishevelled, alcoholic redneck image, that didn't go well...

'If you're lying to me' says Harry, (apparently according to Bowers) 'my children's life will be in danger'

Thomas has no idea what he's talking about and takes him literally, 'What' are you talking about? shouted Thomas, angered by Harry's tirade. 'you haven't got any children'

Thomas felt 'abandoned and humiliated' so drove to McDonalds and then later KFC. He's clearly lost and bewildered and very vulnerable to manipulation by those with an malevolent agenda and Samantha etc.

Yes, if he is reclusive and introverted the idea of the whole thing would be totally overwhelming. They could have had a smaller quiet wedding if they had wanted to. Absolutely they could have. It didn’t even need to be televised. Zara managed it .So did Beatrice. I know it was under restrictions for Beatrice, but she still did it. It was their choice to have a great big shebang.

@Blossomtoes would it matter? Were they ready for 'radical' (?) change and getting with the 21st century. What if Meghan had visible tattoos! :)

Could Kate have been put in a difficult situation by Meghan doing her own thing ? She does seem very worried about things which are not her remit.

@MonsoonMadness am sure you're right, but how could intelligent Meghan have thought for one moment that it would all pan out. I'd have got in early and micro managed him introducing him to people. Harry apparently had a friendly military chap to help guide him on the day, but that was surely too little too late , if so and very alienating, was he ex military? It feels just so clueless and IF he had come and had a breakdown on the aisle or found it all too overwhelming what then? I can't see why they didn't anticipate or this, I am sure you would have and all of us here?

I don't think the tights issue was anything to do with 'royal protocol', just practicality.

Bare legs would be miserable if it was a chilly day, as it can be in mid-May.

At Kate's own wedding, one of the young bridesmaids fidgeted so much during the service that her knickers would have been on view, on camera, if she hadn't been wearing tights.

Charlotte had only just turned three. Maybe Kate wanted to put her in a pull-up for the day, even if she was normally reliable. Again, tights would make it more discreet.

I think she just fails to see things from the point of view of others. She had no empathy. I don’t think Harry does either.

@SheilaFentiman sorry you feel that way, I think overall its pretty balanced and kind, certainly not outright malicious like some discussions. Be great to hear from everyone, it's a great January distraction and takes us away from the misery of the UK's leaden skies. :) I am sure all of us wish them well and and wish them happiness. Both are very interesting characters who have faced significant challenges and life and yes, they're not perfect, who is?

The Queen met Idi Amin. Thomas Markle isn't going to phase her! 😄