Andrew was on the church walkabout this morning

[meh2022]

I was surprised (and not in a good way) to see Andrew join the rest of the royal family at the Christmas service at Sandringham church this morning. He even shook hands with at least one member of the crowd. Surely he should be kept away from the public if the royal family have any desire whatsoever to keep the monarchy going? What is Charles thinking in allowing him to join them?!

I am sickens by the repeated defence of Andrew with 'her age'

It's horrible that there is so much justification. His defenders claim any sex was consensual or he assumed it was (& this is a defence how?), he claims he never met her.

I'd also like to know about his pledge to proactively cooperate with the FBI

Still waiting

It is also possible that Andrew has the goods on Charles too and must be kept sweet

Exactly

Before anyone says it I'm very well aware it "doesn't work like that", but in many ways it really might have been better to pass the crown directly to William.
Of course there's no guarantee he'd be any better, but at least there isn't the same amount of known dirt against him - though admittedly that may be down to the spin coming from those who know he's their best chance for the future

This.💯

It’s not. And not even the attendance of the RF at the church service rates a mention on the court circular website. In fact the only mention of Church on Christmas Day is the occasional mention that a Church Service was held on Christmas Day. Not that the RF attended.

Even the traditional speech to the nation at 3pm is rarely mentioned and I suspect it’s because the RF is said to be on holiday over the Christmas period and it’s probably why no upcoming engagements can be found for the next few weeks at least.

His behaviour after the event speaks for itself.

Quite.

Likewise the persistent refusal of his defenders on this thread to address the questions it raises.

True but let’s not allow facts to get in the way of @antelopevalley ’s rants.

This is planned approval of Andrew .
There will be more

Yes.

We've already had Wills chauffeuring him about followed by his shooting party with big sis and little bro and now he's on Christmas walkabout like nothing ever happened.

All within three months or so of the queen's death.

It's accelerating.

We've already had Wills chauffeuring him about followed by his shooting party with big sis and little bro and now he's on Christmas walkabout like nothing ever happened.

All within three months or so of the queen's death.

It's accelerating.

Do you not read the papers?

www.independent.co.uk/tv/lifestyle/andrew-king-charles-bucking-palace-b2251077.html

@Novella4

He didn't do the meet and greet. He went to church. As he is entitled to do. As everyone is entitled to do. This was not an official engagement.

He is still their family member. If they choose to stay in touch with him then that is their choice. He will occasionally be seen with him because they are a famous family who get photographed a lot. That doesn't mean that they are going to let him back into the fold like he was previously. Charles has already drop kicked him out of Buckingham Palace.

Do you not read the papers?

Of course.

PA's office would barely be functioning anyway as he's a non-'working' royal.

Closing it down is an easy PR win.

Also, the only news item that I can find in terms of Andrew being chauffeured by William is when they were racing to Balmoral on the day of the queen's death???

Charles has already drop kicked him out of Buckingham Palace

Does anyone know if this is actually true? Because all I've seen is that it's "reported", and originally in the Sun at that, god help us

@hobbi. They weren't in the USA. They were in London.

No.

The PR church walk is tacit approval of Andrew by the rest of the mafia - oops 'royals ' . Just as the queen having the sleeze beside her in the car going to church was tacit approval .Uproar at the time . So a hate figure was created
( Meghan ) - roll out Andrew - barely a ripple - job done

The cheesy hand shakes are beside the point ( though I thought I read that he did interact with the public )

You mean when he never met her? Trafficked people cannot give consent.

Re the church PR walk I think Charles as head of the CoE is very damaging to that already damaged institution ( sex abuse scandals)

It's a minority interest in modern Britain so Charles can waffle on about 'defender of faiths ' all he likes - his unnecessary 100 million coronation will cement this minority interest group as being linked to the highest echelons of the state

Then there is the suitability of Charles as an individual to be giving the nod to bishops etc.

Despite all that, Charles' PR has successfully painted him as wiffley waffley spiritual at least . Whether true or not ( shouting at pens at a state occasion leads me to doubt it ) he may pass

WILLIAM as head of the COE is laughable .
Cold cold man with no hinterland of any kind .
I suspect disestablishment will be underway in any case
Reform of the HOL will be part of that

He was not committing an offence, she was 17 and he was in London. There is absolutely no evidence he paid her, that wasn't the way Epstein worked. He paid and supported and trafficked the girls. There's no evidence Andrew was aware the girl was anything other than one of the many young women throwing themselves at him during that time. A shocking lack of a moral compass. No evidence Andrew was aware of Epstein's behaviour, and when he did become aware he was clearly torn between believing someone he believed to be a good friend and the newspapers. It testifies on how good Epstein was at persuading powerful people he was a good friend. He was a charismatic and convincing man. It also testifies to the corruption in the world of the rich and famous. Look at all the hundreds of men who also abused young girls and how no one except Andrew and Ghislaine have been held to account because they are soft targets, the others have been protected because of American power. What Andrew did was associate with a rich and powerful man with private islands and jets and be sucked in by the glamour (much like the girls) and sleep with a willing beautiful young woman.

It doesn't put Andrew in a good light, especially lying about it and not realising being a prince doesn't absolve you of appalling behaviour. I don't think he is a particularly nice or honourable person but he isn't the epitome of evil. He's lost almost everything because of his behaviour. He's been punished. If he want to attend church it's not a big deal. Epstein and his partner were the perpetrators.

I'm no fan of the royal family but where's this idea that William is ice cold come from?

He seemed quite the opposite when I've heard him speak, has he just been branded as such as a foil to his prat of a brother?

Everyone except the victims, was taken in by Saville, despite an instinctive disgust reaction so many people had. Charles, Diana, police, medical profession ...on and on.

@purpledalmation

He paid up to £12 million. If a sleazy little man goes to a brothel and has sex with a trafficked girl, he has committed an offence as the law clearly states it is up to him to ascertain her trafficked status. PA may not be evil incarnate, but he seems no different to any other sleazy little man, just with access to millions of pounds of other people's money and the protection of an unbelievably powerful family.

Do you seriously think the parents of children at the time were aware of Savilles sick behaviour? He had access to children enabled by parents, carers, organisations and not least the kids themselves . You act as though you at the time would have seen through him? I'd guess you like many would have been taken in. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. You can't condemn people at the time who acted in what they thought, was the best interests of the victims. Abusers are cunning, charismatic and believable. Even people who knew him were conflicted but just couldn't believe he was anything other than the amazing charity worker he used as his cover. Thank god we are more aware today than the poor parents 40 years ago.

@purpledalmation

The point is not Saville per se it's the building picture of connections and repeated associations with pedophiles and sex offenders

Hence the list so far and I'm sure to be forgetting some and others still covered up

The Mountbatten court case in Belfast may reveal links and networks and I'll say no more than

You implied he paid her at the time for her 'services'. No mention of a compensation deal, which is what the £12m was. He clearly had sex with her and clearly knew (belatedly) she was trafficked. Paying this blood money was the lesser evil to being convicted of underage sex in an American woman involved never said he forced himself on her, or paid her cash for her services. She's never said he was aware she was trafficked. He used poor moral judgement but it was not illegal to have sex with a 17 in London at the time. Morally corrupt and sleazy but he was not a paedophile or paying for sex work at the time.

@CathyorClaire

We've already had Wills chauffeuring him about followed by his shooting party with big sis and little bro and now he's on Christmas walkabout like nothing ever happened.

Are you referring to William driving Andrew , Edward and Sophie to Balmoral from Aberdeen airport to see the dying Queen ?