Andrew was on the church walkabout this morning

[meh2022]

I was surprised (and not in a good way) to see Andrew join the rest of the royal family at the Christmas service at Sandringham church this morning. He even shook hands with at least one member of the crowd. Surely he should be kept away from the public if the royal family have any desire whatsoever to keep the monarchy going? What is Charles thinking in allowing him to join them?!

You could have fooled me regarding to whether you are royalist or not.

Everyone who was close friend of JE knew underage sex was going on in his parties it was one of those “secrets”. Optimistically PA was just complicit.

This does beg the question why more people are not being pursued.

@Rumpertumpskin
Epstein was convicted of procuring a child for prostitution in 2008

Andrew was already friends with him, maintained the friendship whilst Epstein was in prison and attended parties held by Epstein shortly after his release from jail.

you keep accusing me of speculation and twisting the truth. I’ve done neither. These are all well documented facts and all a matter of public record. Andrew knowingly and deliberately maintained his friendship with a convicted child rapist for years.

you might think that choice is ‘not his fault’, but many of us think that someone is a position of responsibility, and representing the British Royal family should probably make better choices than prioritising his friendship with a convicted child sex offender. He had a choice. He chose that friendship.

I wonder why 🤔

Personally I'd have walked rather than got in a car with someone happy to consort with a convicted sex offender.

Does everyone in the Royal family who does that get a share of that opprobrium then?

How about if you invite someone who hung around for years with a sex offender to your wedding and had them sit in pride of place? And then sat down with them for a lengthy to interview that earned them millions? Is that all just dandy?

I think it is very good question. I can only speculate on this. I guess too many powerful men and in fact PA was the least powerful to even get FBI involved. I also read that most victims don’t want to testify in court.

Yep - when you look at the names suggested - Trump, Gates, Clinton, Derschowitz, etc. it’s a cabal of the Uber-wealthy and very powerful.

I thought it was telling that Melinda divorced Bill during the Epstein scandal

I assume so. But Prosecuting a Prince was never going to an easy task. Seems an odd choice to have him as the only person of that Epsteins trafficked for, officially named.

It’s an interesting question for sure? The only people in the frame for questioning Maxwell & PA AFAIK. Why is that? I don’t know.

Apparently that’s not true according to Alan Dershowitz, who was also accused by Virginia Giuffre before she recently admitted she’d been mistaken.

In an interview in July, Mr Dershowitz told The Independent that he had never seen young or naked women on his visits to Epstein’s home in Palm Beach and his private island Little Saint James.

“It was a deep dark secret. Everything he did he did in a part of the house which was off limits to anybody,” he said. “Nobody knew any of this, nobody would have associated with Epstein if we had known any of this.”

Interesting!

As a lawyer I’d totally expect him to admits seeing victims of teen sex trafficking on each visit! 🤔

@Rumpertumpskin
you’ve consistently accused me of speculation and lying and set yourself as a bastion for the truth.

I assume you’re still happy defending Andrew knowing that he partied with a convicted child sex offender, stayed at his home, invited him to Royal engagements, and hung out with him on multiple occasions over the past 12 years?

that choice is all fine and dandy and in line with what a bastion of truth and morality like yourself would expect is it?

Does everyone in the Royal family who does that get a share of that opprobrium then?

Yes.

They do as they like, they associate with who they like and they don't care because they don't need to. Enough apologists and 'splainers just here to show that.

How about if you invite someone who hung around for years with a sex offender to your wedding and had them sit in pride of place? And then sat down with them for a lengthy to interview that earned them millions? Is that all just dandy?

I have no idea who this is about but it doesn't sound dandy at all, no.

CathyorClaire I expect it was about Oprah and her connections with Harvey Weinstein ...

Ah, Thanks, Puzzled

It seemed like a reference to <<glances round and whispers>> H&M but I wasn't aware of the Oprah/Weinstein connection.

Gonna step carefully away now before being accused of shoehorning H&M into an unrelated thread

Look, I don't want to see Andrew's face about anymore than anyone else here, but he claims to be innocent off all accusations. Now, we may not believe him but his family might. And I'll give them the fact that it must be very hard to believe awful things of a close family member.

They've at least shoved out him out of Buck House and stripped him of everything that working royals get, which he no longer is.

I might begrudge seeing him at family events but I can (very) grudgingly accept that he'll be at them and that means that I, a member of the public, might have to see his face in passing occasionally.

The accusations that the royal family are deeply tainted by association etc are accurate, given my belief that he had sex with young women who were trafficked and coerced. However, I also recognise that if genuinely believed my own family member to be innocent of such accusations, I wouldn't shun them just because others believed them to be true.

Of course this leads us into a debate about where the line falls between Charles the monarch and Charles the brother...(Incidentally, imo the Queen and successive previous monarchs have shown there is no line).

As for the ex wives of various princes not being present...Well, I don't know of many women who would want to continue to spend Christmas with their ex inlaws!

Including Virginia Guiffre.

Yes, it was. Oprah was very close to (now convicted sexual predator and rapist) Harvey Weinstein for many years - they were pictured together looking very cosy many times - despite his predatory tactics being an open secret in Hollywood. Here’s an article from several months before the Sussexes’ wedding making the connections, and with testimony from a MeToo victim saying it was Weinstein’s proximity to Oprah when they met that led her to trust him.

www.news.com.au/entertainment/awards/golden-globes/oprahs-relationship-with-weinstein-highlighted-amid-presidential-rumours/news-story/3e03b57ff6bcb7caf2415655deaa34b6

Gonna step carefully away now before being accused of shoehorning H&M into an unrelated thread

Prince Charles gets shoehorned into thread about Andrew all the time, so I assumed others who have friendships with people in the orbit of sexual predators was also fair.

Prince Charles gets shoehorned into thread about Andrew all the time, so I assumed others who have friendships with people in the orbit of sexual predators was also fair.

I agree entirely,

Any Super Troupers turned on royal murk of any ilk welcome.

Wow. I really didn’t know that. Yet Oprah gets a free pass.

That's because Oprah the billionaire gives away free cars etc to poor people.

Modern day noblesse oblige

How do you know that Andrew knew Epstein was a child sex abuser back then? Do you know that? He hadn't been convicted. That all was much much later on. Or are you doing that speculation and feelings in place of truth thing again?

God alive, just give it up, it's all out there, factual, he knew Jeffrey Epstein had been convicted. He spent four days as guest of honour at a party followed by trying to break up with him before snapped in Central Park.

Why you are so intent on defending Andrew to the hilt god aloo knows but it is seriously NOT a good look.

Harry had to go by himself as he wanted Meghan to go and by the time that issue was resolved , the others had left and he had to make his own way there.

This is just gossip. An example of how gossip becomes ‘fact’ if it’s repeated over and over again.