Is anyone else thinking the optics are off: royals in a golden coach whilst the UK is in a cost of living crisis?

[MsPinkMarshmallow]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11456933/Prince-Princess-Wales-greet-South-African-president.html

People are struggling to heat their homes, feed their kids and pay their mortgages but the royals are in the Mall in a golden carriage and giving state banquets.

Can't we just get rid of the lot of them?

Not that I am aware of however his money is being made on the back of RF titles .

By the way @Novella4 I am entitled to my opinion and will agree/ disagree as I wish .

This debate reflects the Brexit debate. That by leaving all the things they didn't like about the eu would disappear and we'd be left with the benefits of the eu but not in the eu. So similarly, get rid of the RF and we'll remove their cost but there'll be no replacement cost by having a different head of state. All the palaces will still have to be paid for, the head of state will still have to be staffed, visiting dignitaries will still have to be entertained etc.

The president of France cost €100m a year. And the president has no soft power. There's no pictures around the world of Macron visiting countries, other than a plain one at the start. Charles knows all the heads of state of SA through the commonwealth. As will William when his turn comes. Charles has met the heads of state across the world, attended state events, ceremonies and celebrations across the world. He makes connections that last. There are a lot of advantages of having a leader that knows heads of States over a long period of time.

I have no idea why we'd want to change that for an elected head of state that changes all the time. Its not like we're that great at electing people.

Why do we need to spend more money on a lesser vehicle? I think the UK has some cars to hand. Some of them quite shiny and new. You make it sound as though those of us who’d prefer to abolish the royal family would like state occasion transport to be cobbled together with a milk float, go-kart and the Only Fools and Horses three-wheeler, rattling a tin for change.

Didn't someone just suggest having the state dinner in thr flat over Downing Street.

Why use any car when we can use a carriage and horses that we already own and costs nothing?

The world still turns, and diplomacy still continues regardless of bills going up or anything else for that matter. Many of the visits are in place to make us and the world a more safer and prosperous place. If they had withdrawn the carriage how to you feel that would have gone down with BLM?

You need to think through the alternative, and the upset that would have caused.

Over the years the RF have been peerless when it comes to soft power and creating interest in the UK that indirectly benefits you, all of us.

I agree they need to be much more in tune in terms of overall costs.

If the RF were to scale back international dignitaries' receptions they would need to be very careful where they start. I think it would offend the South African president, SA media and many SA people if they were not afforded the traditionally established reception.

the amount of money spent on them is dwarfed by the interest and tourism they bring to the UK. So overall we’d be worse off without them. They also do loads of work for charity.

added to which, there is one family of them and about 69 million of us. So it just wouldn’t make a long term difference if you reallocated their money to us. There are simply too many of us. Even if we could snap our fingers and liberate immediately a billion pounds and distribute it to the population, that’d be less than £15 each. Gone in an instant. And then we’d have no royal family

other countries have cultures and traditions and we would not dream of disrespecting those generally. But we’re happy to trash our own cultures and traditions even when they bring us revenue

I’m no royalist but I think overall they benefit us

The eighteen toilet mansion did not descend out of the sky. Nor did H earn it through his hard work. The fact is that it was paid for via British aristocratic wealth. So they HAVE financially benefitted massively even if they are not provided a monthly payment for doing nothing which is what the half-in-half-out would have been all about.

We do need to trade with other nations and this sort of thing oils the wheels, that's why our Government organises State Visits. The RF just have to do what they're told and live up to expectations - which involves History, pomp and circumstance - whether they like it or not.

If I were Monarch, I'd hot want to do all this stuff, and certainly wiuldn't want to shake hands with and be polite to people like Trump, but if I didn't do it then I probably wouldn't be Monarch for very long, or at least the Gov and My People would vote to stop paying me, which would mean I could no longer loll about on the beach at Mustique or ski at Klostersmor whatever.

Republics seem to manage state occasions without gilded coaches and royal families. Some pomp, sure, but cars rather than coaches. There’s no need whatsoever for a royal family.

Like it or not, the history of the UK’s constitutional monarchy, and the pomp and glitter associated with it is one of the UK’s few, and key, USP’s on the world stage. Heads of State actually want to come on a State Visit here. That makes the Foreign Office’s job that much easier.

Luckily, we live in a democracy where you are free not to like this, but it doesn’t mean it’s not true. The Queen’s recent funeral and the worldwide attention and coverage it revived, not to mention the world leaders it drew (former US presidents had to be regretfully advised they couldn’t attend…) is a good demonstration of the soft power it gives the state.

Has any Head of State ever refused an invitation for a State visit to the U.K. ? I can’t think of any .

Well, as long as we make the Foreign Office's job easier. That's ok then!

Soft power is over-rated I think, I can't see that it's delivering much for the British people.

But if it is, someone tell me what? Does soft power just mean "we can't quantify it really, we're not sure if it makes any difference or not" ?

If your wish is to see them all booted out of their palaces and stripped off their power and influence then it will never, ever happen. All they would lose would be their titles, literally. It would be a straight swap from one life of opulence to another. At the very worst, they would be exiled to the foreign equivalent. We would end up even more irrelevant and ignored on the world stage. The French Revolution is often cited as an example of radical change but that was a long time ago pre-globalisation. They are not technically even British. They are European (German mainly) and have cousins ruling in various other countries. That is the true essence of inequality that they are invincible to revolution when it comes down to the nitty gritty of it.

Of , not OFF !

You know that carriage is very old? They don't order a new one for every occasion it's used for!

Of all cost-related complaints you could make about the royals this is one of the most ridiculous.

I admit, I am somewhat amazed that someone who has lived through Brexit and it’s aftermath could be so dismissive of the importance of the Foreign Office, but there you go.

The Harvard University definition of soft power is “A country’s ability to influence the preferences and behaviours of various actors in the international arena (states, corporations, communities, publics etc.) through attraction or persuasion rather than coercion”. It’s a concept that is studied quite a bit, and the UK is generally ranked highly.

Here’s a link to a study showing how it can result in tangible benefits:

www.ed.ac.uk/news/2017/soft-power-can-bring-nations-concrete-benefits

Haha, yes. It’s all bollox, isn’t it. There isn’t another country in the world getting away with this shite 😂

But we’re happy to trash our own cultures and traditions

I was having this very discussion with someone this morning. There isn't another country in the world that seems to repeatedly punch itself in the face as much as Britain does, starting with the leadership. Dispiriting.

@MaulPerton
Are you describing what the royals do as 'leadership'?

I've heard it all now

So are you saying that the government should stop inviting foreign heads of states on state visits until some uncertain time in the future when the economy is better?

Or they could invite them, but leave the jewels in the vault and the carriage in the mews? Even though these are already in the possession of the royal family and their usage adds little extra expense, relatively speaking, but help create a great sense of occasion?

Because if they had done so for Ramaphosa, I guarantee you that certain of those decrying the 'optics' of this visit would have been tripping over themselves to race to their keyboards to accuse the royals of racism.

I guess I think it's obscene and inappropriate in the current climate

What climate wouldn't be obscene and inappropriate?

Next state visit the bands are going to march around Horse Guards Parade with the usual 'bags of swank', and then Charles and Camilla are going to ride round from Clarence House on a bicycle made for three, Charles at the front. The visiting dignitary will be helped on to the middle seat and not, I repeat not, expected to pedal. They will proceed up the Mall to Buck House where there will be a buffet reception - one small fruit scone per person and two cocktail sticks with cheese and pineapple on them. That should pare things down suitably.

I couldn't agree more.

This made me laugh. Love the visuals. I can actually imagine C&C doing it.

I'll just leave this here.