'Courtiers' by Valentine Low

[RandomPenguinHouse]

Extracts of this were being discussed on a previous thread ('The Times) which just finished.

I'm interested in buying this book, despite never having ever bought any other book about the Royal Family and never having watched The Crown.

I'm interested however in the archaic rituals of the Royal Court and how it works as an employer, and also how the courtiers advise.

Yes the excerpts were focused on Harry and Meghan but presumably that's just for clicks given the relevant timing, and that the book goes well beyond that.

Poignant that in the synopsis for it on The Foyles website it says:

The Queen, after a remarkable 70 years of service, is entering the final seasons of her reign without her husband Philip to guide her. Meanwhile, Charles seeks to define what his future as King will be, with his court wielding ever greater influence as he plans for his imminent accession.

www.foyles.co.uk/witem/biography/courtiers,valentine-low-9781472290908

Anyone else thinking of buying this?

One thing about the VL extracts I think really highlighted Harry’s attitude to everything. The first one talks about how when Meghan was outed as his girlfriend and came to visit London, Harry’s team recognised that the issue of security for her would be key:

“Ed Lane Fox argued Meghan needed to be protected immediately…

“Ed had to wage a huge battle to get [RAVEC] to understand that she would not be able to live her life without police protection… Ed did amazing things for her behind the scenes, but none of them was really appreciated.”

To Harry and Meghan, the two months that it took to get a decision about her security seemed like an age. They felt as if the powers that be were simply unwilling to provide her with the security she needed”

Harry had lived through his brother’s relationship with Kate and must have known that she hadn’t received any protection at all for the many years before she was married, despite having to go through some awful abuse. So he must have appreciated that this was unusual and a real change to how things had been done. Yet he said when speaking to Oprah:

Harry: But that was right at the beginning, when she wasn’t going to get security, when members of my family were suggesting that she carries on acting, because there was not enough money to pay for her, and all this sort of stuff. Like, there was some real obvious signs before we even got married that this was going to be really hard.

So this unprecedented effort to make sure his new girlfriend had security is apparently a sign that the Palace were going to make things difficult for them. Makes no sense whatsoever, Harry.

@goldierocks thank-you from me too for the share tokens.

I'd agree Kate could barely hide her feelings about MM but I think it was a good move of Williams (I assume it was William who invited them on that walkabout)

Just to veer off into constitutional affairs (possibly) for a moment. On twitter "parlyapp" - a journalistic project which seeks to show workings of parliament has commented on the fact that on the 24/10 Viscount Stansgate as a question in the Lords "to ask HM's government what plans they have, if any, to amend the Regency Act 1937"

Parlyapp suggests/believes the question pertains to counsellors of state - is PH domiciled in the UK and/or is it appropriate for PA to be carrying out royal duties such as counsellor of state (and for both, I guess, the implication for any Regent duties)

For all I know, this may be a regular question posed after a new monarch (and tbf I've not searched Hansard) but Parlyapp didn't say it was totes normal so maybe something specific to this monarch and the Regency Act..

So this unprecedented effort to make sure his new girlfriend had security is apparently a sign that the Palace were going to make things difficult for them. Makes no sense whatsoever, Harry.

I think it comes back to what one of the aides quoted by Valentine Low said. Basically, they didn't want to be happy. Nothing was ever going to be enough. There was just no pleasing either of them.

That's statement of Harry's about protection makes 0 sense. Neither of his previous GFs had protection either.

Did they think MM was special because she was an actress (who could afford her own minder)

Interesting @myrtleWilson cheers for that

I think many allowances were made for H over the years, above and beyond and what Harry wanted Harry got, so when Meghan came along he expected that to extend to her. However a married man is also a grown up man (hopefully) so maybe they thought it was time to take the kid gloves off and let him stand on his own two feet a bit. I imagine it probably was all glittery stardust and exciting at the beginning - police outriders escorting them down the M4 to Windsor or KC, huge multi million £££ wedding, and Princess Diana's jewels. I should think it all suddenly got rather dull after the wedding and the reality of real life as a working royal set in and Meghan would have been like "is this it?!"

What’s been more interesting for me reading the excerpts is that the demands, entitlement and put downs started 6 months before they were even engaged !

I don't think it was that dull.

International tours, prestigious patronages, designer clothes, holidays abroad by private jet, a pap friendly baby shower and much else besides. Sure, there were the 'dull' trips to community centres and the like, but I hardly think Meghan's life as a cable TV actress in Toronto was any more glamorous. It's not like she was a Hollywood A lister or anything close. What amazingly exciting life would she have been living if she hadn't married Harry?

Serenster thank you for explaining the choreography of the services. I admit I lost track a bit.

I think this thread is awful and is making me feel utter despair at how brain washed people in this country are. The queen was only buried just over a week ago and now excerpts of this book are being released.

I'm no fan of anyone in the royal family, including M&H, but everything seems to be focused on how awful this couple are, how Megan is a vile bully, Harry is a gullible fool, taken in by a conniving, money/fame hungry woman. Totally overlooking the bigger issues in this family.

King Charles III and his brother have been close friends with some of the most prolific celebrity sexual predators of recent times, does that not concern anyone on this thread?

I realise that both could actually be true, but which is worthy of more attention?

Smoke and mirrors comes to mind.

Yawn

International tours, prestigious patronages, designer clothes, holidays abroad by private jet, a pap friendly baby shower and much else besides. Sure, there were the 'dull' trips to community centres and the like, but I hardly think Meghan's life as a cable TV actress in Toronto was any more glamorous. It's not like she was a Hollywood A lister or anything close. What amazingly exciting life would she have been living if she hadn't married Harry?

Forbes reckons she made around $2m from Suits and other bit parts. Suits ran for 9 seasons I believe, so $2m over that period. It certainly isn’t private jet or head to toe couture Dior money is it.

Remember not to play chess with the pigeon…..

All opinions welcome

As you can see, this thread is about a book and the excerpts from it that have been realised.

As you can see, one of the book excerpts mentioned Charles's friendships with people who later were found out to be sexual predators.

As you can see, we discussed those above mentioned friendships on this thread.

As you can see, I made a comment about whether Andrew's couriers were spoken to by the author and would be referenced by the book.

As you can see, to date none of the excerpts focus on Andrew, hence that hasn't been relevant to this discussion about the book.

@Cozzadelsol Where is the evidence that Charles knew about the other side of those men?

Savile was dead before it all came out about him.
I googled the other two earlier never having heard of them one doesn't seem to have been convinced and the other only around 2016.

@PinkTonic

I mentioned before that Sofia vergara made 500,000 per episode for modern family , that’s head to toe Dior money 🤣

2,000,000 careers earnings while it’s a lot of money coming in, a lot had to go out too as looking good costs a lot of money too

International tours, prestigious patronages, designer clothes, holidays abroad by private jet, a pap friendly baby shower and much else besides. Sure, there were the 'dull' trips to community centres and the like, but I hardly think Meghan's life as a cable TV actress in Toronto was any more glamorous. It's not like she was a Hollywood A lister or anything close. What amazingly exciting life would she have been living if she hadn't married Harry?

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree. I just think she expected...more.

I think Charles showed a massive lack of judgement with his dodgy friendships. I don't think Camilla would let it happen now as she is much more canny.
Agree that the sheer number of reasonable professional people who struggled working with H and M would indicate that the Sussexes were the problem.
Kate and Sophie knew how the Queen had been hurt by the couple's behaviour. I think that explains the icyness.

I can understand why Meghan struggled with some of the BRF rules, because while they would be restrictive for anybody, they were almost the polar opposite of the 'rules' in showbizness.

Eg. Kate wouldn't be used to getting freebie clothes, so being sent them but not being allowed them wouldn't be much of a change. But for Meghan as an actress and influencer (The Tig), getting freebies meant absolutely wearing them and showing them off.

Not telling the press about your special jewellery is normal for a non-actress, but for an actress it's what you do, it's polite and part of the rules.

So the rules weren't just prescriptive, they were almost the opposite of what the correct thing you do is in her profession.

At the end of the day though, anyone who joins the BRF must know how anal, archaic, oppressive and regimented the rules are and how much media interest there is. Which is why most of us wouldn't want to join.

@RandomPenguinHouse the penguins! I do hope that was true as it's funny

I'm not sure if it's 'oppressive' or 'archaic' to say that people who, at the end of the day are public servants, should not accept freebies. It's actually essential to avoid accusations of favouratism or corruption. I don't think it's a particularly arcane concept to get one's head around either. I'm sure senior public servants in America also have rules about accepting gifts. I would think it's pretty standard, and not something that a supposedly intelligent woman with a degree in International Studies should have found too difficult to comprehend.

I think you’re right @RandomPenguinHouse

The issue is that she had to change her life and what she got wasn’t what she was expecting. The rules chaffed and she was no longer own boss. I imagine it is very humiliating to be pulled in for a chat with the Queen about how you treat staff.

I wonder how much of them leaving was a yearn for their own space and how much was embarrassment caused by burned bridges.

At the end of the day though, anyone who joins the BRF must know how anal, archaic, oppressive and regimented the rules are and how much media interest there is. Which is why most of us wouldn't want to join.

This.
Even when one meets Royals, one is told in advance how to address them, a curtsey, a ''Ma'am'' to rhyme with Jam'' to not speak first.

It is archaic, but that is the way of it.

Harry's past 'Gels' knew how ghastly it would be, how one would have to toe the line, be part of the hierarchy, probably much as the Military is, one has to defer to a 'Superior' Officer.

Meghan waltzes in with an ''I'm Queen!'' attitude, from the get go, and it just didn't wash.

As Lady Colin Campbell states, most Staff dislike working for arrivistes, as they get far too big for their boots, whereas oldskool Families know the score, and never speak down to Staff, particularly not respected retainers.

The thing is it was all so incredibly predictable from the off. The engagement interview for example told the viewer a lot. I know Harry would never have listened to any advice, but it should have been blindingly obvious from the off what was on the cards.
Apparently Charles Spencer warned Harry that M wouldn’t fit in.