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The royal family
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Henry VIII - waste of space?

231 replies

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 20/09/2022 20:36

"Apart from his immaturity over religion and which way he really swung, and the total waste of lives, time and money fighting France which achieved sod all - just for starters - anyone got a good word to say for the guy?"

These are not my words neither is the subject heading, I saw it on Facebook. But was he a waste of space? I do have one good word to say for him though I'm not going to start discussing religion.

OP posts:
Always4Brenner · 20/09/2022 22:57

GuyFawkesDay · 20/09/2022 22:27

Yeah but in the Tudors he was young Henry.

Who was by all standards, a big of a hunk. 6'2" (very tall for then), muscly, sporty, musical and well educated he was a proper catch. Even his first 15 years of marriage to Catherine of Aragon were happy enough.

It all went a bit Pete Tong in later life.

Certainly did that fall as well did a lot of damage. Funny enough one of my favourite novels ever is by Margaret George A Biography of Henry the eighth with notes by will summers. I love it it’s an eye opener.

ODFOD2 · 20/09/2022 22:59

nomoreflyingfucks · 20/09/2022 21:45

Well if the Pope hadn't been such a psycho, then to be fair Henners probably wouldn't have needed to form his own religion!
You really, really can't look at the 16C through 21C eyes!
Richard I was also a bit of a twat, he would have been happy to sell London, he loathed this island and used it to fill his coffers so he and his mate Philip could go gadding off to the Middle East to make war on the Saracens, all with the blessing of the Pope.
Going back to Henners, you also need to be aware of what those naughty monks where up to! It wasn't just the Pope making life difficult, but the Catholic Church was keeping an awful lot of money for themselves, not sharing with the poor of their parish and not being exactly honest with the treasury either! Fascinating stuff! Throughout the middle ages and into Tudor and up to a point Stuart times church and state were so interlinked, that the idea of absolute monarchy was just that, an idea rather than fact!
You also have to remember excommunication was a very serious issue, not just for the king but for the safety of the realm, so Henry got round this by effectively telling the Pope and his Cardinals to stick their heads were the sun don't shine! And tadah no excommunication... he may have been thoroughly unpleasant, but he was very far from inept when it came to politics.

I don't think many people fully realise that Rome, the Pope and the Catholic Church at that time were not so much part of a religion, but an actual state. The Holy Roman Empire as it was back then.

Breaking away from the Catholic Church was equivalent to a declaration of war.

But you can't judge him by today's standards of monarchy.

Euridicefortuna · 20/09/2022 22:59

bellac11 · 20/09/2022 22:33

And he did go on to have a son with Jane Seymour but ED can come and go and may well have got worse with depression and illness from the injury

He already had a son,Henry Fitzroy by his mistress Elizabeth Blount. Have to wonder whether he named his daughter after his mum, Elizabeth of York or his favourite mistress, Bessie Blount.

Good Queen Bess was definitely his greatest achievement followed by C of E.

Ein · 20/09/2022 22:59

What an amazing bit of history it was.

Dashing athletic popular prince, apparently people travelled from Europe to watch him play tennis. Then married the fiance of his dead brother and had five children who died at or soon after birth (plus one daughter who lives). No wonder he thought god was angry with him. So he marries Anne instead and she has a whole bunch of miscarriages too plus one more daughter.

He came to the throne a couple of decades after the war of the roses, which lasted thirty years, he must have been so desperate to leave a clear line of succession to avoid another civil war. He just didn’t think a woman could lead his armies and control the various power struggles.

Such an irony that his daughter was Britain’s best monarch and led a golden age.

But yeah obvs by the time he died he was a total dick with a stinky leg and a bunch of STDs.

Still, could all have been so different if his first marriage had produced a son or two.

Veescience · 20/09/2022 23:00

There is a theory Henry VIII suffered from Kell Antigen and McLeod syndrome here

CPL593H · 20/09/2022 23:03

Veescience · 20/09/2022 23:00

There is a theory Henry VIII suffered from Kell Antigen and McLeod syndrome here

Just read a tiny bit about it, that is very interesting, thanks.

RaRaRaspoutine · 20/09/2022 23:12

Wow apparently he weighed around 300lbs at the end of his life. Plus he was over 6ft tall, he must have looked incredibly imposing. I wouldn’t have got in his way before he had his ale.

OnGoldenPond · 21/09/2022 01:19

nomoreflyingfucks · 20/09/2022 21:45

Well if the Pope hadn't been such a psycho, then to be fair Henners probably wouldn't have needed to form his own religion!
You really, really can't look at the 16C through 21C eyes!
Richard I was also a bit of a twat, he would have been happy to sell London, he loathed this island and used it to fill his coffers so he and his mate Philip could go gadding off to the Middle East to make war on the Saracens, all with the blessing of the Pope.
Going back to Henners, you also need to be aware of what those naughty monks where up to! It wasn't just the Pope making life difficult, but the Catholic Church was keeping an awful lot of money for themselves, not sharing with the poor of their parish and not being exactly honest with the treasury either! Fascinating stuff! Throughout the middle ages and into Tudor and up to a point Stuart times church and state were so interlinked, that the idea of absolute monarchy was just that, an idea rather than fact!
You also have to remember excommunication was a very serious issue, not just for the king but for the safety of the realm, so Henry got round this by effectively telling the Pope and his Cardinals to stick their heads were the sun don't shine! And tadah no excommunication... he may have been thoroughly unpleasant, but he was very far from inept when it came to politics.

The Pope wasn't a psycho, he was being held hostage by Charles V the Holy Roman Emperor, Catherine of Aragon's nephew, who forced him to refuse the divorce.

Aria999 · 21/09/2022 02:47

If 'the other Boleyn girl' is accurate he also already had two illegitimate sons with Anne's elder sister Mary.

He desperately needed a male heir so had an understandable important goal, but was also a psychopath with a god complex. Not a good combination.

MsFizz · 21/09/2022 03:12

thebellagio · 20/09/2022 20:40

Considering the way people react to the royals now, I’d love to see some sort of tv show that explored how the kings subjects reacted to his divorces and his beheadings. Haha

Oooh yes. And Catherine of Aragon should be interviewed by Martin Bashir and Anne Boleyn interviewed by Oprah

StopStartStop · 21/09/2022 03:13

It's too late to worry about him now.

skullbabe · 21/09/2022 03:41

JenJones5 · 20/09/2022 22:02

That’s a bit judgemental, isn’t it?

Show quote history

🤣

CandyLeBonBon · 21/09/2022 04:16

@JenJones5
"That’s a bit judgemental, isn’t it?"

That's ironic coming from someone being nasty about being ginger!

Fraaahnces · 21/09/2022 04:46

He composed “Greensleeves”. Ice cream trucks around the world would have had nothing to play.

SilverLiningPlaybook · 21/09/2022 04:57

Interesting thread. It would be diverting to have more threads about historical figures.

pompomdaisy · 21/09/2022 05:09

He was the Donald Trump of the English renaissance.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 21/09/2022 05:13

@Fraaahnces
Actually, he didn’t write greensleeves; common misconception

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensleeves

historygeek · 21/09/2022 06:15

I think it's also important to remember that hewas never brought up to be king- but the spare to the heir. It was only the untimely death of his brother, Arthur, let led him to take the throne.

I think he was brought up with prestige and luxury and, like a lot of young men, took full advantage of his power.

The fear of not having a healthy male heir (Edward was a sickly boy that died at 16 after having been king since he was 9) drove him to paranoia.

Henry also didn't invent Protestantism. He used it to his advantage certainly, but I think a Protestant church being set up in England was an inevitability eventually as so many powerful people followed that religion.

Fraaahnces · 21/09/2022 10:56

@MrsElijahMikaelson1 REALLY? Damn! I have been cursing him every time an ice cream truck comes around

SarahAndQuack · 21/09/2022 11:06

Lentil63 · 20/09/2022 22:55

History is our precious heritage. The good and the bad. I will defend it’s right to be with my dying breath. You may wish to cancel it but you are powerless to do so. In all it’s glory and it’s shame it will endure.

Confused

What a weird response to an enthusiastic thread about history. Did you mean to post here?

CammieKennaway · 21/09/2022 11:18

The only thing I can say about him, is he's my 14th Grandfather (one of them anyway).
Found out via genealogy earlier this year - yet here's me living in a 3 bed semi and driving an older car Grin

JOFFCV · 21/09/2022 11:21

YennefersDress · 20/09/2022 22:24

The brain damage and huge back pain he suffered after the accident, the syphilis, the fact his body was covered with painful pus ridden ulcers leaving him on a wheel chair, having the “doctors” apply leeches to “cure him”, obese, apparently he smelled so bad nobody wanted to be near him etc… this doesn’t sound like a happy camper, let alone someone who should have been running a country.

Not really how he was portrayed in The Tudors, is it? 😂

He was beautiful in The Tudors - I do realise this was very different to the real Henry VIII.

CammieKennaway · 21/09/2022 11:22

Sandra1984 · 20/09/2022 22:24

I believe Harry looks a bit like him.

I totally agree with you

YennefersDress · 21/09/2022 11:39

@JOFFCV have you seen the Spanish princess? He was lovely in that too 😁

JOFFCV · 21/09/2022 11:41

YennefersDress · 21/09/2022 11:39

@JOFFCV have you seen the Spanish princess? He was lovely in that too 😁

No I haven't but just had a look on IMDB and I'm going to watch that, thank you.