Henry VIII - waste of space?

[ImJustMadAboutSaffron]

"Apart from his immaturity over religion and which way he really swung, and the total waste of lives, time and money fighting France which achieved sod all - just for starters - anyone got a good word to say for the guy?"

These are not my words neither is the subject heading, I saw it on Facebook. But was he a waste of space? I do have one good word to say for him though I'm not going to start discussing religion.

This point about the being the spare is interesting and makes me think of the historical curse/fate of other royal spares - Princess Margaret, Duke of York, Harry etc (and back through history) - spoilt but overlooked and ultimately known for the errant and unpredictable behaviour. So perhaps Henry VIII is simply a product of that same curse, the difference being that he found his way onto the throne (and carnage ensues)

The brain damage and huge back pain he suffered after the accident, the syphilis, the fact his body was covered with painful pus ridden ulcers leaving him on a wheel chair, having the “doctors” apply leeches to “cure him”, obese, apparently he smelled so bad nobody wanted to be near him etc

what a great personal ad. His wives were probably relieved to shuffle off this mortal coil.

Yes, she was only 16 or so. And Henry was well past his peak at this stage. I shudder at the idea of this young girl having to climb up on top of this man, with his smelly weeping ulcers and his vicious fury.

Well, he's rumoured to have composed Greensleeves, that's an alright piece I guess.

That has really really made me laugh. Thank you. Such an MN response.

@CammieKennaway Henry 8th had no direct descendants, how could he be your grandfather?

Some historians believe he fathered Mary Boleyns children but its not proven.

Hayley Nolan's biography of Anne Boleyn theorises that Henry was a sociopath with traits of Borderline Personality Disorder.

A slight tangent but I like to consider if Henry's wives were biscuits, which would they be?
My personal thoughts:
Catherine of Aragon: Garibaldi (gritty fruit in doughy exterior)
Anne Boleyn: Jaffa Cake (hint of the exotic)
Jane Seymour: Digestive (vastly under-rated)
Ann of Cleves: Fig roll (plain outer, unexpected inner)
Kitty Howard: Party ring
Catherine Parr: Shortbread (sensible, mature choice)

Ooh medical stuff thanks.

Catherine of Aragon: Ginger Nut. Taken for granted but it can break your teeth if you don’t take care.

Anne Boleyn: Bourbon. A little bit French but not particularly valued.

Jane Seymour: Pink wafer. Delicate and largely overlooked.

Anne of Cleves: Custard cream. Nobodies first choice but a good solid biscuit that can withstand trends.

Catherine Howard: Jammy Dodger. Fun and pretty but not taken seriously.

Catherine Parr: Rich Tea. An unexciting but long-life biscuit that can outlive other psychotic ulcer laden cakes

He fathered Elizabeth I. Not much else that's good. Mind you, he also spawned Mary I, so...

However, his (possible) progeny also apparently led to Josh Widdicombe and I quite like him.

'The Other Boleyn Girl' isn't accurate.

@MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake Yes! loving these.

This is a great thread. Can someone tell me what good programmes to watch or documentaries about him please? I've tried the Tudors but wasn't for me 🤣 thank you xx

I've just found one on channel 5. I'm at home sick so good time to binge watch xx

How does that work? His only known children - Mary, Elizabeth, Edward and Henry Fitzroy - all died without having children. He probably did have other illegitimate children but there’s no way to prove that so they wouldn’t show up on a genealogy tree.

The thing that people forget is that although the Catholic church was without doubt corrupt and money grabbing, they also played a huge part in supporting the poorest in society, something Henry cared nothing about. They provided free healthcare, homes for orphans, food for the hungry and shelter for women escaping violence and rape. Look at any medieval map of a city and most of the land was taken up by monastaries and convents. Alongside the charitable help they provided they also supported the local economy by providing employment. Henry was made aware of this, but chose to ignore the advice to set up alternate support for the poor and instead pocketed the lot.
Most of Henrys early success was down to his wife Catherine of Aragon, including the battle of Flodden that she managed single handedly while Henry was away in France getting his arse handed to him on a plate.

How does that work? His only known children - Mary, Elizabeth, Edward and Henry Fitzroy - all died without having children. He probably did have other illegitimate children but there’s no way to prove that so they wouldn’t show up on a genealogy tree.

It’s probably because of Catherine Carey. She was the daughter of Mary Boleyn, Anne’s sister, and Mary’s husband George Carey. It has long been speculated that Catherine Carey was actually Henry VIII’s daughter, as Mary had been Henry’s mistress, as we all know from The Other Boleyn Girl.

Catherine Carey was Queen Elizabeth’s cousin/possible half-sister and they were very close. She married Francis Knollys and they had 14 children, only one of which died young - so there are loads and loads of her descendants around these days! Josh Widdecombe being one of them, as mentioned already.

@Redannie118 The thing that people forget is that although the Catholic church was without doubt corrupt and money grabbing, they also played a huge part in supporting the poorest in society, something Henry cared nothing about. They provided free healthcare, homes for orphans, food for the hungry and shelter for women escaping violence and rape.

Lets take that with a pinch of salt. The Catholic Church were taking those poor pregnant women and selling their babies to richer couples who could not conceive and putting those raped women to work for free (magdalene laundries anyone?), meanwhile living very opulent lives and burning people who did not conform to their rules labelling as "witches and pagans". They had quite a good business model going on.

The Holy Roman Emperor was more or less aligned to the Pope and was Catholic but you are simplifying it too much as it reads as if it was the same thing and it was not. In fact Charles V, the Emperor, was fighting the Popes (Papal States) all the time, a love-hate relationship as he needed the support of the Pope and the Pope needed his armies.

@Serenster So all these people saying that Henry VIII is their Grandfather don't really know as Mary was married to William Carey.

I find Henry VIII interesting. I watched Six the Musical which I enjoyed (it is not for everyone though).

So all these people saying that Henry VIII is their Grandfather don't really know as Mary was married to William Carey.

Quite possibly. Let’s be honest, if I turned out to be descended from Catherine Carey, I would totally be going with the Henry VIII being her actual father line. 😀

If someone is interested in the Holy Roman Empire at the time, there are two tv series available on TVE a la carta:

• Isabel - about Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand of Aragón, parents of Catherine / Catalina.
• Carlos, Rey Emperador - about Charles I of Spain and V of the Holy Roman Empire, nephew of Catherine.

DNA testing can indicate some connections with high degrees of accuracy, although I'm not sure how the average person could get donor DNA from people in royal lines. But DNA testing was used to identify the Romanovs (Prince Philip primary donor), Richard III (of carpark fame), and to prove that the current Duke of Buccleuch is a direct descendant of Charles II.